Canadian Beef Ban Should be Extended

[egon]

BSE and animal movement and processed feed

I have the opinion that the whole processed animal feed industry must be looked at more closely. I am under the impression that a processed diseased cow may be used for poultry feed. The poultry in turn could be used in ruminant feed. There appears to be cross contamination occuring in processed feed shipping operations. If feed economics are such someone somewhere will not abide by the regulations.

The solution may be quite simple. No more processed feeds as in my mind therin lies the problem. Add to that limitation of all live animal movement.

Not feasable but one can dream of only grain and grass fed produce on the store shelves.

Egon

[Pat]

As regards the concept of an integrated beef industry (that some would like to see suffer an integrated fate)...

The Navy through the ship's CO treats all sailors more or less the same with regards to their workplace safety up to the time where the water tight integrity of the ship is compromised by damage to one of the compartments. This is when that compartment is sealed whether it is occupied or not until the condition is remedied and the compartment can be opened without endangering the ship.

Canadians are not being singled out for punishment. Quarantine procedures would be applied to say Montana if Montana had BSE cases. Few would argue that it is unfair to restrict the movement of cattle across Montana's borders if they had BSE cases. Who would argue that since Montana is one of the states of the union it deserves to be treated equally. It would be treated equally! It would be treated the same as any other state with BSE cases. It would be quarantined.

I too feel for the plight of any group who suffer from an economic hardship which they, as individuals, may be powerless to prevent. If anything is to be learned from this BAD situation it is that we need a change in our process. Clearly we aren't getting the desired results so we have to change the process. You can't just carry on with buisness as usual and expect somehow that things will fix themselves.

BSE is not a "natural" situation. It is a preventable condition brought on by human intervention, a human engineered process is responsible. We need to get serious about this situation and take the neccessary steps required to adequately deal with it. Taking cheap shots back and forth across any border is ineffectual and counterproductive. We need less politics and more vet science to be applied.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

You are absolutely right Pat. I don't think any US beef producer wants to see canada penalized. Your ship analogy is perfect. It doesn't make sense for the whole industry to sink. One, WE"RE TALKING ONE, case in the US triggered our cattle industry to collapse for a number of weeks. You couldn't even take cattle to the sales for awhile!!! Remember I said ONE CASE. We lost most of our trade in beef. We have slowly built that back up with Japan ready to come back on board. If we get another case it will be the same thing. It doesn't matter that it can be prevented. What matters is perception. Does an educational campaign need to be underway? Yes it sure does. There are still many hurdles to jump over in this process. Throwing Canada right back into the middle of it with a brand new case of BSE is not going to do anything to fix the problem.

The latest statistics from the USDA even says that prices will be significantly impacted for 12-24 months before normalizing. All this is doing is baling out the Canadian beef problem by making it our problem. In a month or less the prices here will drop and will be the same situation as it is now in Canada, maybe not as bad but now you will have two countries with beef prices less than the cost of production. How anyone on either side of the border thinks that is rational is beyond me. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Tallnthesaddle]

You know, folks, we agree on a lot of things. Perceptoin is a key element in this situation, Doc, and we have to make sure consumers understand that beef is safe.

I don't blame the US for closing the border. It was the right thing to do at the time. Pat, the ship analogy was excellent and yes, we need a lot more science. But considering that millions of animals have gone across our border both ways, I think it's a mistake to believe we're not in this together and that the US herd is BSE free. I think we need to be working together to get this straightened out.

As far as perceptions go, perhaps someone can straighten me out on some confusion I have over the roll of the USDA. It seems to me that the Agency is charged with both promoting the sale of meat and at the same time ensuring its safety. There have been some pretty distressing reports relating to this.

On April 23, 04 United Press International ran the following under the headline: "USDA VETS: DOCUMENTS FALSIFIED FOR YEARS:" "The U.S. Department of Agriculture has pressured its veterinarians into falsifying official documents for as long as 20 years, former agency veterinarians told United Press International. The allegations come as a current USDA veterinarian and an attorney representing federal veterinarians have made similar charges about existing internal practices at the agency's Food Safety and Inspection Service. The veterinarian -- who requested anonymity because of feared repercussions from the agency -- and the attorney, Bill Hughes of the National Association of Federal Veterinarians, allege the present FSIS management takes retaliatory actions against veterinarian inspectors who do not obey orders from superiors to sign certificates that falsely assert certain food items are safe for export. In some cases, Hughes and the veterinarian charge, even though food items may violate those export requirements, veterinarian inspectors still are expected to sign the documents."

Reuters News Agency had this to say on May 05, 04: "USDA AIMS TO COMPLETE TEXAS COW PROBE THIS WEEK:" "The U.S. Department of Agriculture hopes to find out by the end of this week why the government failed to conduct a mad cow test on a condemned animal in Texas, a senior official told Reuters on Wednesday. On Monday, the USDA said it had not followed standard procedures when it did not test a condemned cow at the Lone Star Beef plant in San Angelo, Texas.

Ron Hicks, a senior official at the USDA agency conducting the investigation, said regarding a report that an Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service supervisor may have decided to not perform the test: "That's one of the points we're trying to do a follow up on and find out." Barbara Masters, acting administrator of USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service, said, "We are working as quickly as we can to interview individuals. We hope to finalize that remaining work in the next couple of days." Masters and two other USDA officials, in a telephone interview with Reuters, did not respond directly when asked whether the agency has broadened its probe to include the farm where the condemned cow came from."

Also from UPI and published in the Washington Times on May 11, 04. "USDA ORDERS SILENCE ON MAD COW IN TEXAS:" "The U.S. Department of Agriculture has ordered its inspectors in Texas not to talk about mad cow disease with outside parties. United Press International has learned that the gag order was sent May 6 by e-mail from the USDA's Dallas district office. It was issued in the wake of the April 27 case at Lone Star Beef in San Angelo, in which a cow displaying signs of a brain disorder was not tested for mad cow disease despite a federal policy to screen all such animals for the deadly disease, otherwise known as bovine spongiform encephalopathy.

The order reads: "All BSE inquiries MUST be directed to Congressional Public Affairs Phone #202-720-9113 attention Rob Larew OR Steve Khon. This is an urgent message." Representatives from the National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals -- the national inspectors union -- alleged the order suggests the agency is concerned about its personnel leaking damaging information about the Texas case."

And...from SFGate.com on Mar. 03, 04 "GOVERNMENT LAUNCHES CRIMINAL PROBE IINTO MAD COW CASE:" "The government has begun a criminal investigation into whether records may have been falsified in the nation's first and only case of mad cow disease, the Agriculture Department's inspector general said Wednesday. In a separate investigation, the General Accounting Office is checking the feed industry's compliance with a Food and Drug Administration's rule aimed at keeping the infectious protein blamed for the disease out of cattle feed.

The criminal investigation is moving alongside a non-criminal review of the Agriculture Department's response to the mad cow case, the department's inspector general, Phyllis Fong, told a House subcommittee. Fong said the criminal investigation focuses on whether the infected Holstein cow truly was a "downer" cattle unable to stand or walk when it was slaughtered Dec. 9 in Moses Lake, Wash. The department initially said the cow was a downer, and that was why it was tested for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE. Downers have a higher risk of the brain-wasting disease. But men who saw the cow at Vern's Moses Lake Meat Co. just before it was slaughtered recall it being on its feet."

And why, I wonder, won't the USDA let Creekstone Farms Premium Beef in Kansas test for BSE privately?

My perception is that there's a big cover-up going on here and that a lot of people are going to be unhappy when the truth sees the light of day.

Dave

[Al_Wa]

Dave and Mark, welcome to CBN. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[rockinmywaypa]

These are the situations that I had tucked in the back of my mind but couldn't substantiate here on the list, thank you for presenting them in an irrifutable fashion. What about sheep bison goats and other ruminates that got caught up in the net, should they have been shut out for this period also. You could falsely argue about scrapie but go to any sheep list and you'll find out that this is also a common problem.

[RonNY]

Having been directed by MikePA to this thread, here is my BSE question:
Every time I hear that Beef is safe when slaughtered by 30 months old , does that mean the same calf is not safe at 36 months. I must give you a what if situation to clear up my question,

1) calf is born from a Non BSE Infected healthy 4yr old Cow on
1/1/03
2) calf & cow are fed feed that is infected with BSE byproducts
0n 6/1/03 until 6/1/04 approx. 1 yr
3) 1/1/05 both calf (2yr old) and cow (6 yr old) are slaughtered
for human consumption

CALF (2 yr old) is consumed by 100 people. How many people are potentially infected with BSE by eating this CALF ?

COW (6 yr old) is consumed by 100 people. How many people are potentially infected with BSE by eating this COW ?

Ron

BSE is a slow progressing disease. No you probably wouldn't be affected by the younger calf is the current research. The other thing that people need to remember is that you ARE only affected if you eat the nervous system. This would be the spinal cord and the brain. You would not be affected from any animal if you only ate the meat and not the nervous tissue.

[RonNY]

now that is where it gets confusing.
The 2 year old calf is safe but if I let him grow to a 6 yr old that same calf (now cow) would be contagious to humans and would not be allowed into the human food chain
So the current USDA thinking is even though the prions that cause the BSE disease is lurking in the body of this 2 yr old calf and because it has not affected the brain of the calf, this contaminated calf at 2 yrs old is safe to eat for humans. It seems that because we don't have a test sensitive enough to detect BSE in the early stages so it must be O.K. to eat. Would anyone like to play Russian Roulette ?. We won't know if the USDA made a BIG mistake for 10 yrs, that is how long Great Britian took for the human outbreak in that country. Sorry to say Cowboydoc, I have slowed my beef consumption when the first (and second) Canadian cow was made public, but with the third cow now confirmed in Canada and the reports from a Vancover newspaper that 41 out of 70 animal feed samples tested in Canada contained "banned" annimal byproducts. Once that border opens its possible a lot of people will stop eating beef in the U.S.
It just does not make sense?

Ron

[Al_Wa]

Ron,
<font color="blue">Once that border opens its possible a lot of people will stop eating beef in the U.S. </font color>
Thats the catch 22. Both Doc and Mark acknowlede this is not a public safety issue but an economic issue.
Mark:<font color="blue">Canada punished themselves.
This is not health issue it is an economic issue. </font color>
Doc:<font color="blue">I completely agree with you Mark.</font color>

Both, I'm sure are a lot closer to the distribution than the consumption.

Mark and Doc, I would be saying the same as you if I were in your position, and though I'm not I do support you. The odd's of contracting BSE is somewhere close to being snuffed in a plane crash