Can you paint vinyl siding and have satisfactory results? I know the vinyl windows have issues which I now understand that fiberglass windows are getting popular in custom homes.
Can you paint vinyl siding and have satisfactory results? I know the vinyl windows have issues which I now understand that fiberglass windows are getting popular in custom homes.
http://www.askthebuilder.com/427_Pai...l_Siding.shtml
is one of a jillion hits doing a google on "paint vinyl siding"
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Very good Pat, thanks for the link. You can paint it but I see it might really be better not to, especially for south or south west exposures where the hot sun can take dark colors on vinyl and do undesireable things. My interst primarily is in painitng vinyl windows.
RaT, If you do it right procedure wise and materials wise you can get a good lasting coat on vinyl but given your latitude/climate and the color you pick, vinyl might distort if you went too dark from the heat buildup.
I went with a high quality vinyl window (not the stocked variety at the big box stores.) They are and will remain white. I saved well over $30,000 compared to the Pella and Anderson quotes and got good performance specs and warranty.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Thats my situation now Pat. I am debating on Anderson, I'm pretty much done with Pella after the last job we did using their windows and doors. I like Anderson but it all depends on the price. I did go to the website for your windows and have it marked. I am going with a color other then white and need to paint. My climate is mild enough with a few days over 100 degrees and almost no days below 32 degrees.
RaT, My GC claims that some of the worst glaring qualilty errors he has seen in windows and doors have come from Pella and Andeerson. This is not to say they are all bad just that they ship junk once in a while like everyone else. Window technology is only so good. A lot of what you pay for in Anderson and Pella is bragging rights at the country club and a HUGE advertising budget. What they spend on advertising doesn't inprove your engineering specs.
You can buy windows from LESS ADVERTISED makers whose quality and INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRMED performance specs are as good as either Anderson or Pella at their best. I'm talking fairly standard windows not some architectural monstrosity.
Windows can only be made so good before you run into diminishing returns and pay "Space Shuttle" prices for improvements that are difficult or imposible to notice in a residence. THe cost goes up quickly once you pass a certain level of state of the art/practice and the windows are not likely to last long enough for the marginal performance improvement to pay for itself in energy savings, i.e. there is no break even time and you are $ ahead to not spend at that level.
Having once been an energy conservationist as a full time engineering job I had to become conversant in the specsmanship of architectural components including windows. I had to sell retrofit and new construction project requirementsto skeptical engineers based on net present value calculations that proved there was a payback within the installed lifetime of the component. Unless you throw in some EXTRA points for name recognition, Pella and Anderson are overpriced compared to product with less advertising budget.
I have no personal experience with the "CHEAPIE" product sold under the BIG names at Lowe's or other big box stores. My comments are restricted to the high end product.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Pat,
Would you mind sharing a few of your recommended manufacturer names, for windows? Or PM me with those?
I am actually looking for aluminum windows rather than vinyl. My architect is a green designer, strongly opinionated rearding vinyl toxicity. Mrs. Slobuds is of the same opinion. So ... I'm with the program as you can well imagine!
Anyway, I like your idea of buying value without buying the name. It just needs to be wood or aluminum.
The architect has fired a warning shot about windows being a or 'the' major expenditure for our new house. So if you could tell tales and name names, I would appreciate the input.
Thanks,
Martin
"The architect has fired a warning shot about windows being a or 'the' major expenditure for our new house"
Hard to imagine that. Is he familiar with the price of labor, plywood, concrete, rebar etc.? Aluminum windows tend to also be the cheapest available even though there are high quality aluminum ones.
Here is a quote from Pats project.
"I bought mostly Simonton windows Contractor series with Low E2 and argon. Good price performance ratio. "
Martin, I'm sorry but I am a total failure in this instance as I have no personal experience with aluminum windows in recent decades. Likewise wood, as I have not researched wood or wood clad with aluminum or anything but vinyl. I did get a Pella wood window quote and it was in excess of $30,000 more expensive than what I selected (but was not better in performance specs.) With vinyl windows there are less advertised makes with excellent quality and performance. I suspect this to be the case with windows of other materials as well so although I can't make a recommendation there I suspect a thorough search will pay off.
Is the wood or aluminuim some sort of GREEN thing? I don't recommend wood window frames due to maint and deterioration but do recommend wood clad with F/G or aluminum. Have you researched the source energy consumption of aluminum, very energy intensive. Fiberglass industry is poluting and dependent on foreign oil.
Our newest car is a Toyota Prius, and we selected vinyl windows for our new house. It isn't exactly a Diet Coke and a Twinkie but there is some sort of trade off ballance.
In general I suggest you study before you buy. You need to know and understand tyjr figures of merit so you will understand the difference between center pane and full window average U-values. Manufacturers play games with the figures of merit by which you need to judge their product. Many self test, some are independently verified. You need to understand infiltration, solar heat gain coeficient (SHGC), visual transmitance (% of visual spectrum passing through the window), the neccessity for thermal breaks, and so forth.
The best window for the job, in say, a living room for example may not be the same on the south side vs the north. There is an interplay between SHGC and VT. If you are after some passive solar gain with a decent U-val you might settle for 0.40 or thereabouts VT for the south side and opt for a higher SHGC and a higher VT for the north side while still wanting a good U-value. There is little or no solar gain on the north side of the house (in northern hemisphere) and increasing VT will help with daylighting.
On the south side you may want to pass short wave IR and block long wave IR to increase solar gain. On the north side blocking long wave IR is a concern. Even though there is little or no solar gain to be had on the north side, in summer the world out there on the north side of the house still gets pretty warm and can send in quite a lot of long wave IR. In winter yo lose a lot of heat out the winds in the form of long wave IR. The radiant environment is a large portion of perceived comfort.
There are good web sites for info on windows. NREL is a good source (national renewable energy lab)
A google on "energy star window nrel" produced a pletora of hits such as:
http://www.jeld-wen.com/resources/other_links.cfm
There is a window selection tool at:
http://www.efficientwindows.org/links.cfm
I have seen this tool on a NREL site too. Try it out.
Of course you'll have to give the tool more info than you have in your bio, like a nearby big city so they know your location.
If your architect hasn't been certified through courses in energy efficient architecture from the AIA (Architectural institute of America, like AMA for doctors) he might not be as savy as you may later wish he were. If you really want to GET INTO THIS and our architect is a tad light in this topic, hire an energy efficiency consulting architect to consult on energy efficiency issues, not the general "look and feel" of the house. Earlier is better. Like doctors, woh can't be specialists in all branches of medicine and who use consulting specialists, think of most residential architects as general practitioners.
Oh by the way. Many designers or architects may cough up blood if you say anything about different windows on the south and north sides but in many instances you can't see windows on both sides of the house at the same time. Even in the same room you often have to turn around to see windows on the opposite side and that elliminates a true side by side comparison and reduces any difference in looks.
Make sure your overhangs are "ENGINEERED" for the geometry of your window positions/sizes, your latitude, and the amount, if any, of desired direct solar gain. Often times proportions of some important details (overhangs in relation to vertical window extent and placement and such) are essentially ignored and built for looks even if the "LOOK" you are after was developed for and had success in a substantially different latitude and or climate than yours, whatever it might be (another fill out your bio jab.) I have dealt with architects as coworkers rather than just as a client and I can assure you there is quite a variance in talent as regards the myriad aspects of energy efficiency and green building.
A separate area of interest: Don't forget IAQ (Indoor Air Quality) when you are going for a "tight" envelope.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
"Have you researched the source energy consumption of aluminum, very energy intensive. Fiberglass industry is poluting and dependent on foreign oil. "
Very true Pat. Aluminum reflects this in the price too. There are so many choices in windows from the well known brand names like Marvin, Pella, Anderson, Milgard etc that offer a variety of materials to choose from and as you have commented, the price for these can be considerable. I have tried many vinyl windows and have yet to be really impressed. I may be expecting to much. Home Depot carries Jeldwen in our area and I was underwhelmed at least with the line they had on display.
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