Trying to put some numbers together for a small feeder pasture operation.
Looking at the livestock reports, 500# steers are $1.28 # and 750# steers are $.90.
That's like only $35.00 for a summer's gain.
What am I missing here? I know this is general and probably can't be really gone into detail here. Just trying to get a feel.
Wanting to try a 100 head deal first.
Dave
Dave,
I keep about 25-30 brood cows and run a small cow calf operation. The price/wt. thing is a moving target. Some times there is a need for heavy calves, sometimes a specific need for lighter calves. Depends upon a variety of issues, ie, wheat grazing in the midwest, etc,. One thing I would advise you is: don't compete with order buyers paying the prices you mentioned for calves. Find some calves that have been undermanaged. Get them healthy, get them in better condition, and turn them on the spring grass. If you're lucky you'll make a little money. Don't set your expectations so high that you can't have some fun while you're doing it.
TK
Dave (and TK) Now you know the basis for the addage about how to make a few thousand in the cattle buisness is to start with several thousand. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
See also, point of diminishing returns.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Pat is exactly right. It's tough to make money with cattle. First off you wouldn't buy at 500 and sell at 750. If you're going to buy at 500 you need to feed them out to come out ahead at all. By the time you figure your cost margins profits are usually pretty slim. Don't expect to make alot of money with cattle. The only way feedlots do it is on sheer #'s. It's the same with most crops these days. That's why the days of the little farmer are gone. There's just no way to make it on small #'s.
On a hundred head if you made $35 profit on each one that would be $3500 profit in six months. That would be great for most cattle producers!! Problem is buying right and selling right. If you buy at $1.20 you sure want to sell high. IF this Canada border thing ever opens or we get another BSE case, etc. you could lose your shirt.
Thanks. I know about losing your shirt. I bought some baldie mama cows in 73-74 for $.44 and a year later they were worth $.22.
Here's the deal. daughter has some friends in MO that run steers after they combine the fescue grass seed. about 800 steers a year. Not all on fescue, some scattered leased pastures.
One of these pastures has historically handled 100 head thru the summer. It is further away than their main operation and their main hand is going to retire. So they are cutting back.
I'm about ready to semi-retire, so I thought about taking that piece.
Maybe I'll see if I can caretake that pasture with their calves, be safer huh?
Dave
It would be safer that is for sure. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Where is it at in MO? If it's not too far and the price is right on the pasture we might be able to work something out. I've got lots of cattle and I'm always looking for good pasture.
Pat,
I know what you. Reminds me of the farmer who won $1million in the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with it he replied, "keep farming as long as it lasts."
TK
Most farms the size of the typical mainstream farm of 50-75 years ago can't be run these days as a profitable enterprise that supports all the participants. Of course there are exceptions, some outstanding ones, but they are a fringe minority.
I know a lot of small farm/ranch owners. Few run their agricultural operations sufficiently in the black to support everyone involved. The typical sceanario is fueled by wishful thinking, poor records, conveniently short memory, etc.
Many are essentially bankrupt (as far as the agricultural operation is concerned) but keep on doing it because "it is what they do... who they are" and they have a retirement check or a day job or other source of funds to keep underwriting the agricultural losses.
Some are fuly aware of this and continue because they prefer the "lifestyle" or "prestige" of going to the sale barn or seeing and being seen by the other members of the Cattlemen's association at the monthly dinner meeting (free beef dinner hosted by a sponsor such as a feedlot, loan corporation, pharmaceutical house or...) Whole regions of the country have a subculture/social structure at least partly connected to and revolving around this shared agrarian mindset.
In their own way they are selectively clinging to certain vestiges of a bygone era. In a way they (we) are an anachronism, perhaps not of the proportion of the Hamish but still, to a large degree, not fully grounded in realism. Logicallly we know that most folks going to a casino will lose and that most likely we would lose too but virtually all the participants somehow delude themselves and think somehow "magically" or otherwise their outcome will defy the odds and they will be winners. Small cattle operations are a lot like that.
It is OK to pay to play and if you choose to delude yourself about the magnitude of your profits, fine. Some of us just like to do what we like to do and if we can handle the financial realities we will perpetuate the "hobby farm/ranch" activity although we may bristle if someone else suggests it is a hobby or that we would be dollars ahead at the end of the year if we weren't doing it.
My hat is off those who can consistently turn a REAL profit. Good management practices and cold hard application of sound principals will help but the majority aren't really interested. They are living the script in their head...and that's OK!
Around here well over half of the small cattle operations (less than 50-100 head) would probably be ahead financially to just quit and have all involved flip burgers but the uniform isn't as neat as jeans, boots, and western hat and kids will never mistake you for a cowboy.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
<font color="red">In their own way they are selectively clinging to certain vestiges of a bygone era. In a way they (we) are an anachronism, perhaps not of the proportion of the Hamish but still, to a large degree, not fully grounded in realism. </font color>
To a point I agree with you Pat. However if a person already has the land, the tractors, etc. and that is their way of life then you can make some money with cattle and such. I have friends who have as much in boats, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, ski condos, etc, etc. as other friends who have cattle or horses. I have other friends who own hundreds of acres just to be able to hunt on it and wouldn't dream of running livestock on it because it would upset the game.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is that just because a person chooses farming, ranching, etc. as their hobby for their discretionary income they aren't really any different than any other person pursuing their hobby. Most everyone I know that is in it knows it isn't a money making venture but they do it because they like to do it. Not very many hobbies make money but at least you can get some of it back with farming/ranching.
[img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Pat,
I would appreciate it if you would not make me face reality so vividly. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I know how I'm doing financially in my operation. When I retired after 43 yrs. in industry and being in the midst of the "dumbsizing" era, I was ready for some therapy. That how I view my operation. When it ceases to be fun I will quit.
TK
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