We're kicking around the idea of building in a natural gas grill , maybe a small sink and a small fridge.
First of all, does anybody have a NG grill and how are they compared to a propane ones? The idea of not running out of gas right in the middle is really appealing. Are the "built in ones" of standard sizes, so if I get cheap one now, I can yet have learned another lesson later without getting lessoned in carpentry & masonry again too? Not sure what it will be sitting on yet, but leaning toward flagstone.
What to make the cabinet structure from, wood or block? It will be covered in rock or brick veneer with either tile and or stainless top.
How about features you would recommend. I'm kind of shootin from the hip on this, as I haven't seen but a couple of these, so any input and pictures would be more than welcomed.
Tom, I've never had a "built-in" grill or outdoor kitchen, but in '68, we bought a small older house and there was a small natural gas grill at the edge of the patio. We used it so much that when we bought a new home in '72, I immediately went to the gas company and had the largest grill they had at the time installed, along with a rotisserie, and when we bought another new and larger home in '77, I had one installed there also. Of course, I don't even know whether the gas company sells the grills themselves anymore, but we sure got a lot of use out of ours.
Bird, thanks, I pretty much figured that natural gas is the way to go, you've had three, says enough. I ended up in town today and seen Lowes carries a build in model that appears to be decent quality.
Am I missing something, or is there no spell check on this board? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Up until I retired a couple of years ago, I was in the business of building custom outdoor kitchens. We sold natural gas grills to everyone who had NG available; they are a heck of a lot more ocnvenient than propane. However, depending on where you are installing it, it can be difficult to plumb the NG. Your local NG supplier will be able to advise you.
NG grills are just as efficient as propane grills. NG doesn't have quite as many BTU's as propane, so the valve openings and orifices have to be larger in order to provide more gas to get the same heat. Some grills can be converted by drilling out the orifice, but most cannot without also changing the valves. The reason is that many valves use different size holes for low, medium and high, and using a propane valve for NG will step the range down a level. Low will be too low, medium will be low, and high will be medium. If the grill uses infinite adjustment, it may not be necessary to change the valves. One example of a grill that can be converted with just a new orifice is FireMagic; the grill is shipped with both NG and LP gas orifices, and a new label to stick on if it's converted.
Most of the grills sold by the big box stores are not easy to convert; some are impossible because the Mfr. does not provide the necessary parts.
None of the built-in grills follow a standard size. Every Mfr. varies the size slightly. They are still uinder the mistaken idea that once you buy their grill, you should be locked in to them when you replace it. They have not yet discovered what the kitchen appliance industry figured out many years ago -- that you can get more sales by allowing customers to swap to your brand from some other, rather than trying to lock them in. Not only does this policy make it difficult to upgrade from an inexpensive grill at a later date, but it is especially bad if your first choice Mfr. goes out of business and you own an orphan. There are a very few possibilities of converting from one Mfr. to another, but it always involves some fabrication and filler pieces or some additional "carving" of the cabinet.
You should pay particular attention to the materials used to construct your island or cabinet. Wood is bad. It burns if too close to the grill; some manufacturers will declare their warranty void if you use a combustible cabinet. It also rots and attracts critters (like termites). Masonary is good, but difficult to handle. We sort of invented our own method, but it's not easily adopted by a homeowner. We used square aluminum tubing and TIG welded a frame for the cabinet, then "skinned" it with 4' x 8' sheets of cement board siding (HardiPanel). We then applied a veneer over the HardiPanel of whatever the customer wanted -- stucco, ceramic tile, stone, slate, etc. We could easily have applied veneer bricks, but the brick look isn't popular in South Florida, so we never did one.
Building a quality outdoor kitchen is not cheap. Our average cost for cabinet, grill, bar sink, undercounter refrigerator, etc. was around $8,000; we built several that went over $15,000. A good quality grill will retail between $1,500 - $6,000 depending on brand and size. At the upper end is Viking, etc., but they aren't any better than a grill costing $1,000 less -- they just have an expensive name. YOu shoould buy the best quality grill you can afford, because of the aforementioned problem with upgrading -- you don't want to put a cheap grill in now, and be forced to spend $$$ in a couple of years because that grill is junk and a new one won't fit. In addition, the better quality grills simply cook better -- almost unbelievably better. All of our clients thanked us once they discovered how much more fun it is to cook on a quality grill.
Most of our cabinets were installed under a patio roof, so we also frequently got into the issue of ventitlation hoods. You will need a minimum of 600 CFM for a basic 64,000 BTU grill, and 300 CFM more for each 32,000 BTU that you add. A 600 CFM Vent-a-Hood starts around $1,000.
The particular example I picked had a stucco front, certamic tile counter top, and slate tiles on the back, under a cantilevered bar. This is the back view.
Don, of course you were building some beautiful upscale stuff. I just had gas grills on posts set in the ground at the edge of the concrete patios. All three were purchased from, and installed by, the local gas company. The first, and smallest, one was there when we bought the house, but the gas company contacted me later because the previous owner had not completely paid for it (the gas company would finance them for some period of time back then). They didn't give me any trouble about it when they learned I had just bought the place; just said the previous owner wouldn't be able to get gas service in Texas until he paid it off. The second one, of course we bought new, bought the rotiesserie for it, and lived there 5 years with no problems with it. The third one we bought new, kept the rotisserie from the previous one, used it for 11 years, and it was still in good condition when we sold that house. We only had one single problem or maintenance item to take care of, and that was with the last one. We got a male dog (we'd had females before) and apparently he thought that grill post was a fire hydrant. That corroded the post and I had to replace it once; not a big deal to do, but annoying. When I replaced it, I also made a larger shield around it that I painted black so the shield would be easier to replace in the future than replacing the post.
When we bought the first house, in addition to the grill, there was a gaslight in the front yard and one in the back yard, and when we bought the second place, and the grill was installed, I had gaslights installed front and back, but the last place had a street light right at the front corner of the property, so I didn't get gaslights, and I guess they're pretty rare now; seldom, if ever, see one anymore.
Personally, I love the old post-mounted grills. Very likely the primary brand you had was Broilmaster or Warm Morning, the same grill, but Warm Morning was the predecessor name. The other possibility from that era was Charmglow, which was actually the first commercial gas grill, around 1961. There were dozens of others, like Shepherd or Turco, but Charmglow and Warm Morning were the biggies. The successor to the Charmglow today is called MHP, and is still available with a post mount, except the post is now aluminum, eliminating your problem with the dog.
Ah, and gas lights. I love them. They're so warm looking and romantic. No matter how hard they try, they'll never come up with an electric post light that looks the same. Gas lights are still available; one of the better suppliers is the same MHP company (Modern Home Products). I'd love to use them to illuminate the 600' of wooded driveway that will lead to my new house, at the gate, and a couple by the pond -- but they cost more to run than I can afford on a retirement budget. Each one will use at least $30 worth of gas per month, and I can think of a lot of other things I can do with, say, $150 instead of 5 of the lights.
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