A different idea for a shop

[Pat]

Great snapshot. I have now officially decided that you do need a "HAYMOW" door, decorative "faux" door or operable, or vent or any combination of the above. It would just look so cool.

Oh, by the way... I just hung out with Navy types because they paid me. I was USAF (SAC) when I was in uniform during that little fracas called Nam.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[roypat2126]

"a hood that extends below the top of the edge with wire screen to keep the critters out."

Hey Handy, I'm tryin to visualize what you're describing but I draw a blank. How -bout posting a magazine picture that shows it? I keep thinking cupola, or shed-dormer, something along those lines but not sure.

A shed-dormer is simply a flat roof "Hood", if you will, that can be any size and any height you need.It's like a bump-out (up) roof panel with wall material under it. Most of 'um accomodate windows like gable dormers.

Now, some roof ridges I've seen have a slight "shed-dormer " full length and usually the front roof-ridge line extends a bit higher and as it travels out over the back, the back side will have a straight drop to the main roof line that allows for stationary or moving windows. This might be what you've got in mind......

Show me, amigo, [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Have a blessed weekend,
roy

[roypat2126]

My hat is off to ya, Pat, and I appreciate your Nam. I too was USAF back in '66 and volunteered for VN but they cut off the line with the guy in front of me. I fussed and all but they sent all the rest of us back to work drawin blood for the guys in SEA. My fine Brother was there 3 different tours all within 10 year window.

I just want to say THANK YOU, Pat, for your participation defending our freedom. I did as well, but from a more comfortable spot--- stateside. Do you remember the POW bracelets? Mine was lost, however my wife's has the name Col. George Day, (pilot shot down in 66 or 67.) We would like to present it to him sometime. He lives in FL last I heard.

But I have a great respect for anyone with foriegn war on their history, whether hero or rejected.

I 'spose I can't fault you too bad for hangin with those guys wearin bloomers.... they Did defend all that water you know... and quite well I think.

So, you're an ol' SAC duffer? I was SAC for about 3 years at Sacto, CA. Great outfit!

"HAYMOW" door, decorative "faux" door

I have windows for the loft and if I can get a half round transom to fit I'll put that in. I have one but it's an odd size, 58"dia. and none of the windows I have fit it. I'ld like to swap it. Not sure if I want to void warranty on the end wall trusses by putting transom windows 'above' wall height. Eventually we plan to bump out the front loft window, put in french doors leading onto a porch extended from the side roof, which would provide covered entry for the end. I opted not to put in the hay pulley extended roof ridge when the framers were workin and sorta wish now I had included it ...but I can add it as a foux do. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] and paint it blue..., and call it my blue foux do! (Better not say that too loud as that lil' blue haired lady down at the chruch might jump me on Sunday mornin'. )

Anyhow, Have yourself a blessed OK day, Pat! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
roy

[Pat]

ROYPAT and others, NO NO NO, I did not intend you to think I was "in country." I used the Nam ref to place the era of my service. I served during that fracas but from afar as although I was a volunteer I was not permitted to leave the continental US without special permission for 6 months after I was out of my regular job. They wouldn't let me "just hang out" for 6 months to be able to go. So I took my discharge after 4 yrs and still couldn't leave CONUS for 6 months. It was a classified knowledge thingy. What I new was volitile and after 6 months was worthless. I did lose a couple close associates (pilots) and a third was severely injured. I don't think I was a jinx but I trained all three in flight sims. One made it over but stepped on a mine while visiting his FAC. Another drove through a semi load of pipe on the way to his embarcation. The third fell on the ice and went through the prop of his own private plane. Cut him from collar to ankle but the ice saved him. He was back on duty in a month but missed his school assignment for Dragon Ships. Oh yeah, that was what all three volunteered for. Gooneys with guns.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat (no hero here just a plain vanilla patriotic citizen soldier) [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Handyman]

roypat2126 ....

Picture in your mind a, for topic sake, a 4'x4' chimney in the center of the peak/roof.
Now picture a peaked cap over the top, but with the outside edge below the chimney itself. Inside, a damper/flap to keep out the cold in the winter time. This could be made/framed out of wood using the same siding of the shop to match.

[Pat]

I get it, A CUPOLA with extended roof overhang and no walls.

Does the wind ever blow at the same time it rains at your location? It sometimes does here. The CUPOLA-SANS-WALLS solution will admit blown rain. You could add on a large funnel sort of thingy under the cupola to catch the rain water and direct it via a downspout to wherever you like.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Handyman]

Yes, a 4 sided Cupola.

However I think if I made my own vents, over lapping the slats enough.. you wouldn't have a problem with the rain.

Actually, the idea I have is for the cupola to be solid like a chimney and make a cap that extends... lets say 6" below the top edge and maybe 2" larger around than the main strucure.
I'm not sure about your part of the country, but rain doesn't go upwards here in Tenn [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Handy, I got the design idea from your previouis explanation and now you have confirmed it. I don't want to upset you but even in Tenn rain water entrained in a wind current will go any direction, even straight up. Sure, with a nice civilized sprinkle and no wind involved, runoff water will follow the roof and drip off the edge of the overhang, real neatly. However the situation is often a bit more complicated than that.

The volume enclosed by the cupola is open to the rest of the building to make ventilation possible. Wind gusts create considerable complex edies (see Chaos theory) which will take entrained water drops with them wherever they go unless sufficient precautions are taken (see Dorade vent) even transporting rain vertically upward when driven with sufficient force. Suficient force can be achieved at normal wind speeds encountered in thunderstorms.

Dorade was the name of a yacht on which this style of water separating vent was first used. It uses a simple but successful water air separater that permited below deck ventilation during rough seas or rain without getting appreciable water below decks.

The design you have proposed would easily accept such a baffled water separating vent and would virtually eliminate wind driven water from entering at your cupola. These "Dorades" are dead simple to build and work well. The trapped water would be drained back out of the cuploa to the roof.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[roypat2126]

Hey Handy,
Pats dorade vent theory is exactly what you are describing. And you could add a flap/damper on enterior side to control the venting (loss of heat/cool). You could easily build one within a cupola, using a "chimney" say 12" PVC pipe inside a box with louvers, and opening along the slope sides to allow run off down the roof. Check out www.calgarycupola.com for a basic cupola shape and design, but I think you can devise the right vent, with a little good ol' American engenuity!!

Another different idea for a shop: not sure how many guys have anvils on wood stumps...I cut a large slot in my anvils' stump to fit one fork of my pallet jack, so now it's real easy to move anvil where I need it. Oh you may need an anvil monkey as well, to stand on the other fork and hold things whilest enroute! I like to "scooter" the whole rig, myself.

If I had put more thought to it, I would have drilled, 90 deg to the slot, a hole to ensert a short "arm" to catch the other fork and stablize the anvil when lifted. Not talking much weight so 3/4" blk pipe would do the trick, most of weight would be on the fork under the stump/anvil...so maybe 75lbs on the pipe.

Hey Pat, My hat's off to you! Even stateside GIs have a war to fight, even if it's the guy who barfs in the flight chamber! It's the sprit of the conflict that causes the cohesiveness for one cause.....FREEDOM!!

I spent 4 years overseas with secret clearance but about every 4-6 months I got a call saying we lost your paperwork or your fingerprints were smudged, or they had a typing error (way before computers) so even though I had "secret" on my card to me it was no secret. Every time I had to redo the PW, someone new did it....the whole Force knew I didn't have resources to backup my clearance.....Well, at least it was a great feelin' years later when they sent letter stating I didn't have to keep my bags packed for mobility activation.

So, Pat, even during your 6 mo. quarantine condition you can still be honored for your service to keep freedom alive (If I had a old glory flag I'd be wavinit right about now)

Have a blessed day, [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
roy

[Pat]

Roy, I wish I'd thought of that! I have an anvil but no stump yet. I have been picking it up and carying it much more than I ought to be doing (once is too much.) I need to get me a stump and I know where to get it. I had a large bifurcated pecan tree but now I have a single trunk tree and a log on the ground. I need to "attack" it with my 32 inch chain saw and cut me an anvil stump! Maybe I'll notch it on opposite sides so I can temporarily insert a couple boards as lifting handles that can be temporarily attached with lags. I can then pick it and the attached anvil up with the pallet forks on the FEL. It should be quite stable during transport. I wish I could find one of those old time large blacksmith anvils. I bought a new one that is just over 100 lbs (I think) but would like a larger one. I want a HUGE vise too.

Oh about security stuff... in SAC I only rarely got involved with classified documents. My typical day would include dealing with combat crews deploying to various locations in KC-135 tankers to refuel B-52 bombers and ond other combat aircraft "at work" in SouthEast Asia. The "Classified" info I was exposed to was the names of the crew members, the A/C they were flying, their destination, their weather alternates, and such info. This info was considered classified but was quite volitile. SAC figured when it was 6 months old it was useless, history, not of interest to any foreign power.

My real exposure to classified was working at a DoD (Navy) lab. I signed papers that permanently and irrevocably modified my rights under the constitution. I was subject to random urinalysis and polygraphic examination. I can't ever reveal under penalty of imprisonment many aspects of my security level, much less any actual info itself. It is funny sometimes to see stuff on TV, like the history channel or whatever, that is among the things I can never discuss. I think someone somewhere missed out on something. I believe when something that was classified becomes declassified and public knowledge I should no longer be prohibited by law from discussing it but that is the way it is and I have to comply even though some of the time it is ridiculous.

One of the variants of a Dorade vent that I have seen is concentric tubes (PVC pipes) set vertically. the larger outer pipe is capped at the top and open at the bottom. The smaller pipe is open at the top and bottom. The path for air flow (assuming air is exhausting) is into the smaller pipe at the bottom, out the top of the smaller pipe and into the larger pipe near the cap, then down and out the larger pipe at the bottom. In flowing air is the opposite. Water is excluded untill the air velocity is so great that it will entrain the water drops and cary them through the pipe arrangement. The cupola with self closing louvers will create a reduced air pressure within its volume. This suction will draw air from the top of the structure on which the vent is mounted. It is unlikely that you will get significant water in through such an arrangement but it will suck out significant volumes of air if there is any decent breeze blowing. Heated air will be drawn up and out through it even in a no wind condition due to the chimney effect.

A cupola is worth it even just as a docoration.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]