Goats for mountain property

[MtNMan]

Hello all. My name is Fred and I am new to CountryByNet. This is my first post. I am in the process of purchasing 40 acres of property sourrounded by national forest at an elevation of around 8,100ft in northern New Mexico. My primary intention with the property is to use it as a mountain retreet were I can hunt, camp, hike the NF, and fish the local lakes. At some point I may build a cabin but probably not for a while. In the past the property has been used as grazing land for cattle. I was told that occationaly the property was leased for up to 20 head of cattle to graze. The going rate was $20/month/per head. The fences are in need of repair but I was thinking of completely refencing the entire property. I am wanting to get some cattle and goats. So I was going to use the 2" x 4" "no climb" fence with two strands of barbed wire at the bottom and two at the top. My concerns are appropriately fencing the land so that cattle and goats don't get out but also so that predators don't get in. Another concern is to build a fence that is hard to climb for tresspassers as well. I know that someone determined will climb anything but something intimidating enought to keep out the "honest" tresspassers. The breeds of goats that I am thinking of getting are angora, kiko, boar, alpine, saanen. I am wanting a large sized goat with good sized horns and able to deal with its environment. Also I was looking into guard llamas for the goats. I know very little about breeds of cattle, but any advise on fencing, breeds of cattle, goats, llamas, anything else would be great. I need all the advise I can get.
Thanks,
Fred

[MtNMan]

another pic

[egon]

Welcome. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Nice property [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

How much rain do get on an average up there? This may determine the number of animals that can be grazed. I feel that 20 head of cattle will be about 15 too many for any substained grazing. The goats will clean out a lot of shrubs and bushes the cattle don't eat. Think I'd abandon the idea of imported animals for protection.

Fencing will keep cattle and goats in but predators and such will have free access unless it is chain link and electrified or such is my opinion which is many years out of date mostly useless.

If the grazing is too help alleviate purchase costs do some math and then make a decision.

If the land is leased for grazing see a lawyer first for an agreement and make sure there is insurance. There are some on this forum who are very informed/knowledgeable about what is required from a legal point and can also give you much inforation as to fencing and grazing density and the type of animals which are preferable.

Enjoy the property.

Egon

[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[MtNMan]

Thanks Egon! I too think 20 head is too many I was thinking 5-10 and around the same number of goats. Why do you think the guard llama is a bad Idea? I don't need to put any animals out there but thought I might as well fatten up something during the non winter months. I am not sure of the amount of rainfall, but there is a creek and spring on the property. Does anyone have any suggestions on who would have good goats for this property? any other advise?
Thanks,
Fred

[egon]

The summer rain may influence how well the grass will stand up to grazing.

Really can't add any more because it's an area I have no knowledge off and what little I do know is well out of date.

Will stream pollution present a problem?

Egon

[twstanley]

I think that regardless of what fencing you have a determined predator ( coyote or wolf if you have those which I think you might in that area ) will go over it.

If you are thinking of having your livestock on the property year round one of the first considerations is water for them, in the summer you need a source that won't go dry and in the winter one that won't freeze up.

A guard donkey or lama would be a good idea to protect the stock from predators.

Make sure you supply some mineral supplements to make up for any deficencies in the forage.

What kind of provision do you have for feeding hay during the winter? I think you will need to do that as well, unless your stocking ratio is low enough that there will be enough standing grass to last the winter. You still have to feed if the snow gets deep enough where the stock can't get to the standing grass.

[supersport]

I would recommend guard dogs (Anatolian ) over llamar. I have a wooded terrain in texas and the llamars did not worked out well. I lose 12 of my goats to coyote before I bought the dogs. For the last 3 years I have not lost any goat to coyote anymore.

[mfaley]

I agree that to keep predators out would be tough. It’s very expensive to build a fence a puma can’t get in and it’s almost the same with a wolf or coyote. I would take the suggestion about building a fence to keep livestock and dogs in rather than things out. From personal experience people are the worst. The bigger the fence you build to keep them out the harder they work to destroy it. I would just post some generic “don’t trespass” notices.

If you are going to run dogs you will probably need more than one if you really think that you are going to have a predation problem. Coyotes and wolves will pack up to get after a lone dog if they are hungry enough. And cougars aren’t very afraid of anything when they are hungry.

Now here is a different suggestion. I would fence it with a good tight 4-6 strand barb wire no more than 4’ high. This will allow most of the wildlife to keep their habitat and keep your livestock in. Most of the bigger old ranches in our area run a 3 strand 4’ fence and as long as it’s not overgrazed then the cattle stay put.

The rancher across the street from us runs about 500 acres on his home ranch with cattle and a goat now and then. The goats naturally herd up with the cattle for safety. He runs a 3 strand fence that the deer can get over, the coyotes can get through and the critters can get under. He might lose a goat or young calf but not very often.

To me that solves the problems and you don’t have a big fence that impacts those things that called that area home before we ever got here.

You have a beautiful place.

Mark

[Michael]

I would go with the donkey idea, those #%($#%@% are mean and despise pretty much anything. If you go with donkeys, don't plan on keeping a dog as a pet, donkeys don't distinguish between pets and predator's they kill them all.