Anyone shoot IDPA?

[GaryM]

No, IDPA rules don't allow anything except "post and notch" types of sights. Fiber optic type devices that gather light and brighten things up are OK though. I decided on the Truglo Brite-Site Tritium/fiberoptic sight. It has a set of light pipes that gather light and produce fairly bright dots. One in front, and two in back. In low light, a set of tritum vials provide the light.

IMHO, laser sights are a gimmick with little actual value in the real world. Maybe good for a pistol with poor sights, but I doubt their value even there. In a self defense situation your task is not to intimidate the opponent, but to stop the threat. It may be different where the SWAT team is trying to make an arrest.

While my slide is off having the new sights installed, the fellow is going to Duracoat http://www.lauerweaponry.com/duracoa...p;Category=220 the slide in matte black. No charge. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Guess he's trying to build his business.

[Chillimau]

Gary,

Do you do any reloading? Looking for a good beginners book to reloading.

[Michael]

Gary nailed it, the lasers are pretty much for looks only, our hut-hut guys (SWAT) tried them and their accuracy dropped, quit using the lasers and scores went back up, they look cool but they won't do anything that sight alignment and trigger control won't do.

[GaryM]

I used to do metallic cartridge reloading a ways back. Had an RCBS press, Ohaus scale, RCBS power measure, Foster-Appelt case trimmer, plus other stuff like go-nogo gages etc. Loaded .38/.357, .45LC, and .243 Win. Did it for a few years and then sold the rifle and switched to shooting autoloading pistols. Never wanted to gather up the empties from the autoloaders. The revolvers spoiled me I guess. Maybe I'll start again sometime.

My BIL reloads shotshells and I go over and do some at his house once in a while. He loads 12, 20, 28, and .410 and has a dedicated MEC loader for each.

[Pat]

Michael, More to grip for better control sounds good to me. I selected the baby Glock for concealed carry and reliable simplicity plus wanted the punch of a .45 but don't need tack driving repeatability or accuracy. I'm happy getting 5 out of six in a 12 inch diameter circle at 20 ft using natural point of aim method for first shot and transitioning to the sights while firing. I thought a LASER would make a terrific training tool as well as a sighting aid.

I used to train with Speer target bullets (plastic cases and bullets and primer only.) I'd hold the weapon vertical upward or downward (ready position), select a target, and point and fire without bringing the weapon all the way up to use the sights. One round only then back to the ready position. Then again, point and shoot. You can get pretty good at this, especially if you have targets at different ranges, azimuths, and elevations. With practice you get so that you can pretty much hit whatever you look at. One of the downsides is that with Speer plastic target rounds you get a lot of bullet drop (poor ballistic efficiency) and so with real bullets you shoot high, especially at the more distant targets, over 10-15 feet after training with the plastic rounds.

If you try a variation of this, don't keep the weapon trained on the target and fire multiple rounds. IF working from a holster, for instance, holster the weapon and take your hand off of it between shots. This will help you to buld ingrams or muscle memory that will let you draw and fire pretty accurately at whatever you are looking at. This method is not reliable much above 25 ft and is pretty much a waste over 40 ft in many situations. (Depth perception is judged by various cues other than paralactic angle of our binocular vision at distances above about 25-40 feet.)

I am supposing that I can use the LASER sight for training and reduce the number of actual rounds fired. The LASER of course essentially has no drop and has less deviation from the .45 ballistics than the Speer rounds, within the ranges of interest. At ranges less than about 12 feet you don't really need sights (in the real world NOT competiive shooting.)

I don't understand your implied mutual exclusivity between a + 1 mag and LASER sights. Why not both?



[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

Sort of off topic but still refers to aiming.

Back when I was employed the mechanics had a lazer beam temperature sensor that was configured like a very clumsy pistol. Even had a trigger.

I used to spend quite some time practicing placing the red dot on various pieces of equipment without aiming. Never did get any good at it but would think it made a perfect simulator. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon

[Michael]

We have been using this for a while, it started out being called "point-shooting" but the NRA Law Enforcement Activities Division didn't care for the term and now we are asked to refer to it as "stance-directed fire". I may be confused on the laser, are you going to use it as a sight or a training aid?
Studies show that most deadly encounters occur within 7-12 feet of subject (both LEO and non-LEO) and with the use of stance-directed fire, it deems the laser pretty much useless in a real life situation.
As for preferring the mag extension over the laser, some people (IMO) tend to use the laser exclusively and completely ignore their training. They also tend to question their equipment if the round doesn't go exactly where they "had the dot". Before you spend the money for a laser, you might want to try the mag extender, and I believe that you will see a significant tightening of your groups (more control=tighter groups). You may also want to shorten your trigger pull by resetting the seer between shots.

[Pat]

MIchael, Reseting the seer between shots??? Is this leting off the trigger completely and "re-squeezing" the full travel?

Sorry if I wasn't too clear, I often don't fully understand what I say... I had both in mind but concur with your assessment. Up close and personal I can get 'er done without sights much less a LASER. There are several COOL bonus points if you have a LASER.

Egon, Done properly (right training approach) most folks are capable of getting pretty good with natural point of aim. Back in the early "we only have a few advisors" stage of the Viet Nam fiasco there was a USAF training program that used plain old fashioned BB guns to train instinctive shooting. Many shooters made it to the shooting-aspirin-tablets-out-of-the-air stage (sort of a mini skeet shoot) and several (not a majority) made it to the shoot-a-BB-out-of-the-air stage. I saw this demonstrated and it was even on TV.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Michael]

Actually, it is letting the trigger out slowly until you feel the click of the seer resetting. Then you are ready for the next shot. Less trigger pull, less room for error. After some practice, it becomes instinct.

[egon]

Fraid the few little gray cells resideding between my ears are not sufficient for freehand shooting at small moving objects.

Think genetics and opportunity may play a bigger role than practice.

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]