Where is the air coming from

[AncientHouse]

Hi there,

We gutted a 140 year old fieldstone farmhouse because it wasn't taken care of for a while, we replaced almost everything except for anything to do with the well which was in good shape and we kept the pressure tank. We had all the plumbing replaced. When the plumbers were done, we told them there was air in the lines. They said it had to be the hot water tank (we didn't replace it). We tried draining the tank etc. but do to so much iron through the years, we decided to replace the hot water tank. This took care of the iron but not the air problem. The utility company rechecked the tank and said that the air is not coming from the hot water tank. Any ideas? There is air in both hot and cold but more in the hot water. More in the morning but also throughout the day. Could this be coming from the pressure tank? We have a bunch of water cleaning systems including a water softener, iron extractor, sediment filter and UV. We also have a Reverse Osmosis system for the drinking water. These are all new and aren't causing the air. We've been struggling with this problem for a while. Any ideas? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Calling the old plumbers is not an option as we weren't too happy about the way they tended to want to shortcut everything [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] This is the first time we've dealt with a pressure tank and well so we don't know much about them.

Thanks.

[twstanley]

Hmm, air in the water...like the faucet sputters and coughs while turned on you mean?

Try eliminating things one at a time, perhaps open an outlet closest to your pressure tank and see if you have air in the line when it is just the well->pressure tank->outlet circuit.

Is the water level in your well low enough to be getting air in the circuit?

I am not sure but if the pressure tank or anything on the pressurized side of the valve had a leak I would think water would come out at that point as opposed to sucking air in...

[jimbrown]

My thoughts.
If there were leaks on the outlet side of the pressure tank water would leak/squirt out. The leak almost has to be on the suction side of the the pump. You say the well was in good shape. Do you know how deep it is, what the water level is, how deep is the pump or pump head. How old is the pipe going down the well. If it is a submersible pump it it may not be deep enough in the well or the static level of the water is so low the pump sucks air. If it is a jet pump one of the down pipes may have rust holes in it.

[egon]

Maybe hold a lighted match near the faucet when the air starts coming out. It just may burn!! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon

[GaryQWA]

It can not be the water heater unless the temp is too high and the T/P valve isn't working. And if it was the heater, how would the air be in the cold water, which it couldn't get out of the heater into the cold unless the dip tube was missing or broke?

So either the air is being added to the water by the water treatment equipment OR the pump is sucking air OR you have methane in the water, which will burn.

You need to provide more info.

What type of pump; submersible in the well or jet above ground? If jet, one line or two to/from the well with one large dia than the other?

What type of pressure tank; captive air precharged (bladder type) or old galvanized air over water type?

Exactly what type of water treatment equipment for the iron; air pump, air injector, oxidation with ozone, chlorine, hydrogen peroxide etc. or just a backwashed filter? That is before the softener right?

Is all the the water treament equipment new? Was it moved when the plumbing was redone?

Gary Slusser

[AncientHouse]

This has been an ongoing problem. As for why I think the well is in good shape is that it's a 250 feet drilled well and we haven't had any problems with the supply of water and the pressure that we get so I'm assuming the well is working. Everytime we test the water it is actually drinkable prior to all the water treatment machines but it would taste bad. The water treatment people told us the air isn't coming from their machines. We still have to check for methane and we checked the pressure with a tire gauge. I'll let you know how it goes with the methane. Is this the Gary from the plumbing chat? What happened to that chat? Was it closed down? This is my ongoing air issue. We haven't tried the methane test yet [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] but we will. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[GaryQWA]

I see I have an error above, where I mentioned the dip tube, that should be the anode rod. The dip tube is on the cold inlet, not the outlet.

Oh right, if the treatment guys are using air for part of their treatment and there's air in the water now, certainly it can't be THEIR equipment! Wrong, it is their equipment, although you didn't tell me what it is they are using.

Yes, although and probably because I'm not a plumber, I answer water quality and treatment equipment, well pump and water well questions on a number of plumbing forums. But recently I was banned from one (plbg.com), quietly so others wouldn't know, due to my publicly disagreeing with the owner about the use of PVC female fittings. We then had extensive private email communication.... It's not a nice place so I didn't mind the banning, just the small minded cause. But maybe you mean doityourself.com's Plumbing section Filters and Conditioners forum.... I posted there for a year, until last March, and it became a very popular forum and I was a moderator there. I was banned after 830+ posts due to politics and one guy, he posts on plbg.com, not liking my tag line which included my company name; which I had used for all but the first two posts I made there. My posts are still there, with the company name edited out by Doug Alshire, another moderator. He wasn't the guy I have the problems with though, that is DUNBAR PLUMBER. He has threatened to get me banned everywhere I post. He dislikes anyone that 'corrects' anything he says, and bans them or works toward getting them banned. I'm currently working on clipping his wings... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Gary Slusser

[AncientHouse]

That's too bad. You were very helpful. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It was plbg but I couldn't get in. It said they were changing format. Then I found this forum which had a bunch of different subjects which helps when you live in the country. I'll check what machines I have and post on Monday. I know the RO works with air but we don't have air in the separate faucets where the RO water comes out. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I'll also check for air in the water by taking water from the pressure tank into a plastic bottle and see how it goes.

Thanks. Have a great weekend.

[Pat]

My mom's house does not have any filtration equipment at all and is fed from a well. Recently a line from the well to a frost free hydrant nearly a quarter mile away was extended to provide an alternate water supply to my new house. During the plumbing work, adding the extension to the new house, the well was turned off and the line toward the new house drained so the extension could be added.

For nearly two weeks after this the water at my mom's house was cloudy (FULL OF AIR.) After the initial gurgling and sputtering while the gross air was being expelled from the lines the water remained milky in appearance for about two weeks or more. If you got a glass of cold tap water it looked quite milky but in a minute or so the itsy bitsy air bubbles would rise and be dissapated.

I was quite busy and did not research the cause and it cleared itself. It remains a curious anomaly. Should it happen again I may investigate further.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Pat, that milky looking water that would clear up after sitting for awhile happened several times to us while we were living out in the country. I think it's pretty common with rural water systems, and I know what it is (air of course) but never quite understood the how and why of it.