computer games

[egon]

An observation made last evening.

We are currently visiting my son in Edmonton. He is educated and employed in the engineering field. [ plays with dirt ]

Last evening he was showing me the google earth map site. It was very difficult for me to follow as he was displaying different views, moving around different locations and using many different site functions. He did this with ease and no hesitation.

It finally dawned on me the manual dexterity required may have been due to a typing course taken in high school and the many computer games he played. [ types at 60 words/minute.]

In the new computer world I would suggest that a typing course would be very advantageous. Perhaps the computer games are not so bad either. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon

[mfaley]

"It was very difficult for me to follow as he was displaying different views, moving around different locations and using many different site functions. He did this with ease and no hesitation."

I think that these are many of the same skills certain parts of the US Military is looking for these days as they are using more remote control and robotic tools.

I used to think that spending time on the computer and playing those dang games was a complete waste of time. Now I think they are just a partial waste of time..... [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Mark

[Pat]

Egon, There are many common "standard" HMI (Human Machine Interface, used to be MMI) GUI (Graphical User Interface) approaches that once learned are transferable to any similarly engineered software. This is not unlike the "New" power switch symbology of one and zero to indicate on and off which once understood allows you to turn many things on or off.

I am somewhat ambivalent regarding computer games. I think the violent ones desensitize and dehumanize the players. Many take up too much of young folks time and give back nothing or nearly so. The hand eye coordination of computer games is over rated as a training ground for warriors in a high tech age. There is a connection but it takes a lot less game playing to develop than is typically credited.

If you don't have the reflexes to develop, games will not produce them. If you do, it doesn't take zillions of hours playing games to hone them.

Part task trainers where portions of a real job may be simulated have a transfer rate of about 90%, i.e. you can draw a picture of a cockpit computer interface from a F/A-18 Hornet weapons control cosole and let a pilot "PRESS" buttons (by pointing and clicking a mouse) to change modes, enter data, etc. and prep a smart weapon for launch. What the pilot retains is about 90% of what he would get out of doing it in the cockpit. This makes the "computer game" for preping and launching the weapon highly cost effective because they could hire me and my team to produce the software a lot cheaper than they could power up an F/A-18 for the pilot to practice with.

So Egon, the same thing tends to apply in the case of the young engineer who dazzled you. Once you understand the typically encountered standard idioms navigating a new system is not much of a stretch of the imagination, it just seems to be intuitive. Stuff you try just seems to work (most of the time.)

This is not always the case. In the western hemisphere (and with our client states) for the most part a red indicator on a panel is a trouble light. In the Soviet Uniion, red was for "normal" and blue or green indicated trouble or out of allowed bounds values.

Once you are familiar with "the way software works" any software following the same interface guidelines has a lower learning curve. Microsoft has brought a significant level of standardization to the employ of a GUI, beyond the level it was at when they "BORROWED" it from Apple. For example, take a look at the top of your browser (I still use Netscape) and note the headings of the drop down menus such as File etc. Pretty much the same from program to program so you don't waste much time "saving" a document whether it is in Word, Xcel, or whatever. Nothing sacrosanct about placement or organization but repetitive commonality makes things just "feel" right.

Driving in England points out the advantages of standards. As there is no argument that can logically fault the Brits for driving on the wrong side of the road (except appeal to the majority rule.) Similarly there is no particular reason why a clockwise rotation should be associated with a right turn. Why should the car turn in the direction the top of the steering eheel is turned? It is just as logical to have it turn in the direction the botom of the wheel is turned which woiuld make us turn the steering wheel counter clockwise to effect a right turn. Same stor on pedal location. Gas is to far right, break to far left, clutch (if any) in the middle.

It is my contention that given a group of manually shifted cars (some with backwards turning steering wheels) and the pedals arranged at random, the SUPER COMPUTER GAME PLAYER would not demonstrate a particular advantage over other individuals of similar intelligence and native physical ability in operating or learning to operate the various configurations.

I recall an individual with a wheel steered motorboat with the wheel rotation reversed. It was a source of some amusement to watch his friends repetitiously bump the dock while trying to steer away from it. Logically they new what to do but the years behind the wheel of a car interferred mightily and humorously.

Given perfectly logically layed out software but with other than the MICROSOFT standard GUI, your young engineer friend would have been as clumsy as my excavator operator trying to operate the extend-a-hoe that had many of the hyudraulic controls set up differently from the track hoe. He had 30 years experience as an operator and ran the 4 ft bucket track hoe like it was surgically attached to him and HATED the extend-a-hoe because it made him look spastic and uncoordinated. I contend the same fate would befall the software savy engineer.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[chrisjbell]

Egon, you're absolutely right about the importance of taking a typing course. With backwards hindsight I know that one of the more valuable things I learned in high school was "touch typing", or I suppose it could be called "typing correctly". This skill has served me well over the years - I used to do software development and so one of the key skills to do my job was typing.

What I'm no longer certain of is what the future will hold for input devices. Here's an example of where I am a complete dinosaur - doing text messaging. Sure, the concept of using my cell phone's keypad to enter text is simple. But I'm really bad at it - I do the equivilant of what would be "hunt and peck" on a QWERTY keyboard.

But on the topic of computer games overall - I think that they can be helpful and educational. My oldest is 8 and is very comfortable with using a web browser (very well supervised, BTW!) and is getting pretty good at typing - I'm thinking that it is time to get a typing tutorial for her. She plays educational games for the most part, supplemented with trips to the Barbie and horse riding web sites.

Pat had some good comments about how the user interface (UI) makes such a difference (references to the M$ model). What most devices use today is the essentially the same as what the gang at Xerox PARC (Apple was not exactly blameless as far as "borrowing" ideas) came up with many years ago with a pointing device and images. You see it on your computer, cell phone, ATM, in car navigation systems, etc. Will it stick around? Probably, but what is unclear to me is whether the QWERTY keyboard is going to continue to be the method to input text.

'Course people have been saying that the QWERTY keyboard is dead for a number of years. I guess one of these days they might be right - but I'm set in my ways, for sure... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Chris, I certainly agree with you and Egon about the typing. Many times I've been glad I took typing courses in high school. So touch typing? Yes, that's what I do, but I don't know that I'd say I'm good at it. When I took typing in school there were NO electric typewriters (can you still buy manual ones?). There WAS one time when I regretted learning to type. When I was a young patrolman, there was a time when the captain's secretary resigned, they checked personnel files, found I was the best typist on that crew (not good, just the best they had at the time), so I had to work as the captain's secretary for a month. We had an electric IBM typewriter that was, even then, an antique. Copy machines didn't exist. How many remember typing with an original and 5 or 6 "onionskins"? Errors and corrections were not permissible. If you made a mistake, you started over. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Sure was glad when he hired a new secretary. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I love these computers and word processors where errors are easily corrected. [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[egon]

The computer games, Think the skills required for those is more dependant on right brain use while typing would use the left brain. Pilots of military airframes should be of a slight right orientation I would think. Those in commercial passenger duty may be slightly different with some left bias. ?? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [ talking about stuff without real knowledge]

Thinking about the boat at the dock; always thought you put it in reverse and steered into the dock when leaving. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Just wish I could use more than one finger typing.

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Chris, Bird, Egon, et all, I am a graduate of the Christopher Columbus school of touch typing where we were taught to Look For, Discover, and Land On the keys one at a time!

Dvorak keyboards are more ergonomically efficient but the dinosaur of qwerty lumbers on as the standard much like MSDOS and Windoze were/are the standards even though not the best. Similarly the Intel 8086 family of chips (evolved into the Pentioum) were not the best but were made the standard by IBM using them so as not to "feed" Motorolla. A far superior chip of the era was the Motorolla 68000.

Just how ergonomically sound is the layout of the qwerty keyboard. Think about this... The placement of the keys on the qwerty keyboard was NOT to make it faster to type but to slow the typist down in some instances. The original manual typewriters had no "standard" layout. Early models had problems of sticking-overlapping keys when typists accessed certain keys or combinations too fast for the mechanism to function. The keys were laid out to prevent this "overspeed" induced jamming. That is right. We don't need overspeed prevention with moderm typewriters or especially with electronic keyboards but the qwerty layout has a life of its own and oodles of inertia so we continue to flog this dead horse. We also are resistant to SI units (going metric), or adopting a rational microcomputer OS like Linux.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[aussie]

Dvorak designed keyboards as well as composing sublime music? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
As a music teacher over almost four decades I have seen no difference whatsoever in the pace, ability, or eye-hand coordination of pre-home computer and current era students, and most aussie homes have at least one computer now.
There are, in fact, a great number of Music Education software programs used as a matter of routine in most schools today which could be called computer games, and they are very effective.
If a teenager who has never used a cash register starts at a supermarket, or a fast-food outlet, within days they would have a speed that equals those of long term employees. Same situation, I think.
I'm a graduate of the Gengis Khan school of typing, Pat: Look for, grab it, and move on to the next conquest [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Never got past one finger, I mean

[Pat]

aussie said, "I'm a graduate of the Gengis Khan school of typing, Look for, grab it, and move on to the next conquest Never got past one finger, I mean "

Not so different from my typing approach. I am a graduate magnum cun naseum of the Christopher Columbus school of touch typing where we look for, discover, and land on the keys one at a time. My military typing course had a final exam/speed test. Before correcting for errors I made 15 words per minute. I have coppied Morse code faster, with a pencil writing in all caps!

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[KyGirl]

I always played a lot of computer games and video games when I was younger, but did good in school as well and got plenty of exercise. I personally think that computer games can be great for kids as long as they don't play them too often. I also had typing classes in school and now I can easily type anywhere from 60-70 wpm. I think I am really comfortable with computers because of all the computer games I played. I also think my some of the dexterity and hand eye coordination I have is due to the video games I played. It also teaches kids to problem solve and think for themselves if they are playing the right game. They also have several free online typing tutorials, games, and speed tests for people looking to improve there typing speed or their kids typing skills. Just Google typing games or typing practice.