How to prevent dogs from bolting through gates

[kerosenedrvr]

I want to fence my property (13 acres) to keep my dogs in (german shepherd and lab). Is there a clevor way to keep the dogs from bolting through an open gate? Would a cattle guard or something similar work?

[phxraptor]

Run some of that invisable dog fence along the gate entry and strap the collar on the dogs. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[kerosenedrvr]

This might sound crazy...I have the invisible fence system for my two muts. I have two transmitters at either end of the house and the dogs wear their collars with the power level at maximum (with fresh batteries). My lab will go out to the perimeter where the collar first beeps. She will brace herself and tolerate the shock for the 20-30 seconds that it lasts. After the shock is over the collar is basically shut off until it reenters the perimeter. If the Shepherd see's the lab is outside, he'll bolt through and also tolerate the shock.
The shock is harsh enough that the lab will hunker down and brace herself. She'll yelp while getting shocked. It is almost painful to see.
I guess the point of my reply is that the invisible fence is not effective enough...Any other ideas?

[Pat]

In the words of the inimatable guru of manly pursuits "Tim the Tool Man" Taylor, MORE POWER!

It isn't that they are immune to the effects, it is that they are willing to "very briefly" endure them to have their way. If the "system" were engineered differently such that the shock were pulsed and repeated the whole while they were on the outside of the perimeter and the only way they could "turn it off" were to return to the inside of the circle then they probably wouldn't find the ongoing discomfort such a desireable tradeoff.

I could design such a system but am not aware of its being COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf.) A very viable alternative is to add another training collar with a different operational mode. You need to get the kind that is activated by the trainer/handler with a hand held remote control transmitter. You can then give negative reinforcement when they bolt, even after they are out of range of the invisible fence.

Skilled trainers could give better advice than I but here is some of the basics: During the initial traiining sessions you probably need to be able to deactivate the invisible fence. Substitute feedback from your hand held controller for the fence as they approach the boundary. Open the gate. If they bolt, call them and give them plenty of correction as long as they are not headed back. If they are headed back toward the gate, stop the corrections and praise them. If they stop or turn around, correct them.

I'm sure you can get better advice from a professional or more experienced trainer. The key is to give negative rewards for unwanted behavior and lavish positive rewards and praise for doing the right thing.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[phxraptor]

I doubt if shocking the animals outside the perimeter would encourage them to cross inside the perimeter.

[Pat]

phxraptor, You are absolutely right, just shockiing them while outside the perimeter will not ecourage them to do anything in particular. Ya gotta read the fiine print dude, the stuff between the lines in case I didn't say everything. You don't just mindlessly shock them the whole time they are out of bounds. You shock them when they are headed the wrong way and praise them and offer rewards when they are headed the right way (back toward in-bounds. This is simple operant conditioning. B.F. Skinner and other psychologists have written about this at length. It isn't experimental, it is about as fully believed in as gravity.

Look here ===> http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/#Consequences

This is one of many sites that should be of interest to animal trainers (or kid trainers or ...)

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[kerosenedrvr]

I appreciate the info. This has been a challenge for my family.

[Pat]

Not to run it into the ground but operant conditioning is a powerful technique/tool for behavior modification of dogs, kids, emus, or...

If you don't feel comfortable or haven't the time to try to get up to speed on operant conditioning then consider getting some professional help in the form of a good dog trainer. A good trainer should be able to show you what you need to do and get out of the way and let you do it for a reasonable charge, possibly checking back in a specified interval to offer mid course corrections. Note: the trainer may not recognize the term "operant conditioning" but will nevertheless employ it.



[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[twstanley]

The only thing I did when the dogs would get thru the shock zone was stick some of the marking flags back in the ground aorund the perimeter, put a leash on the dogs and do some more training.

First I got a leash out and put it on them. Then I would lead them up to the shock zone, let them hear the warning tone or if they went too far get a little zap, then pull on the leash to come back in the middle and then get rewarded ( petting, encouraging words ). That helps them build the conditioning that backing away and moving back to the center of the yard is what to do if they hear the warning or get zapped.

[Pat]

twstanley, Thanks. Perfect example of operant conditioning employing both positive and negative feedback!

Added bonus is you don't need any more equipment in the form of those additional radio controlled collars I mentioned. Good stuff!

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]