Interested in what you think of my situation

[canoetrpr]

My wife, two year old son and I have finally moved from suburbia to a lovely country property. 26 acres total - 16 pastures, 10 wooded.

Everyone around us has horses and boards horses. Our fencing is great. We have two paddocks. Barns are in great shape. There is a 5 stall barn, a three sided loafing barn, a hay loft etc.

Previous owners had their own horses and boarded a couple as well.

I work full time, my wife is a stay at home mom. Neither of us has ever cared for horses before but would be interested to learn. We have been taking about getting some kind of livestock or the other, just to get us started being hobby farmers.

The previous owner was classified as a farm for property tax purposes. Since we have no farm income, we are taxed as residential - about $1200 more per year.

In Ontario, to classify as a farm, you need to be earning $7000 or more gross per year from your farm business. Boarding horses does classify as agriculture here.

I see few advantages of boarding horses on our property (in order of importance to us)

1. It would be really nice to have horses on the property. This property is so perfect for horses - seems incomplete without them. We love being around animals and would be looking to include some kind of livestock into our farm over the next year or so anyway.

2. Boarding three horses would put us over the $7000 per year gross income that allows us to classify as a farm business and save about $1200 in property taxes. There will be other small benefits too - saving sales taxes on this and that (like the tractor that I jut a deposit down on!).

3. Even if we turn a small net profit out of the $7000 gross income - or even broke even on that but were able to cover fence maintenance costs or maintenance costs related to the outbuildings, it would be worthwhile. I feel that we'd be able to keep the outbuildings and fences maintained in good shape and this would contribute to the overall value of the property - even if we just broke even after maintenance.

Disadvantages:

1. I work full time so I can't contribute too much to taking care of the horses.

2. We would have to do a lot of learning. I suspect that we might have to hire someone at least to help us get started out. Our neighbours are very experienced with horses and have offered help and advice in getting started.

3. My wife could definately make the time with our two year old now but in a year or so we might have another baby - would probably need to hire someone to help there for some period of time.

4. May have to deal with the odd boarder (human not horse) that may not be pleasant to deal with.

Other choices are:
1. Don't do anything. Bite the bullet and pay the residential tax rate. Get a few chickens, a couple sheep, just for pleasure.

2. Look into some other kind of livestock. My wife's grandfather (who is now retired and in another part of the country) raised Beefalo and suggests that we go that route for example.

What do you think?

[egon]

Pay the extra $1200.00 in taxes. This will probably save you money, hassle and even allow some free time.

Egon

[jimbrown]

You will regret boarding horses. There is more to it than meets the eye. You will have to be there every day. Buy hay and feed. Deal with owners. Owners are going to want you to deal with shoers and vets. They will probably want to park their trailers ect. you will have to shovel poop every day and do something with it. Three horses equal at least one tractor load (loader) a day. Buy goats or chickens.

[Bird]

At one time when I was a kid (over 50 years ago), we had one horse and one milk cow and more pasture than we needed, so Dad allowed some other folks to "pasture" 3 more horses at our place. The horses' owners were supposed to take care of everything; we were to do nothing but allow them to run in our pasture. And even that arrangement didn't last long; they were just too much trouble.

[Pat]

$1200... ONLY $1200!!!!!!!!! Pay it! Listen to uncle Egon and pay it. Later when you have learned a little about REALITY you will be so proud of yourself for making such a very wise decision. There just likely isn't any way you can take in $7000 that isn't so much hassle you'd not end up wishing you had paid the $1200 and not had the hassle.

There are always a few folks who are the exception to the above but the odds of that being someone with zip experience is vanishinly small. Assess your goals. What is important to you? Is it hassle free use and unencumbered enjoyment of your "estate" or is it avoiding $1200 in tax?

Beefalo? There are smaller gentler breeds for hoby folk with less stringent fencing requirements. Don't you think your kids would be safer around pigmy goats or thte like?

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[canoetrpr]

Thanks for the dose of reality folks!

I'm thinking that the plan of going with chickens first and then thinking about goats or sheep or some smaller livestock which we fully plan for costing us money instead of making money, sounds best.

[QRTRHRS]

Tell you what. Find someone who will let you volunteer your time to help out with the horses. That's right, volunteer. I have no shortage of people who want to learn about horses but also think that they should actually be paid. The truth is, aside from the liability, it just plain slows you down to educate someone. Anyway, try it out for a few days if you can. Then ask yourself if you would like to do that 24/7.

Boarding in itself does not pay, repeat does not pay. If horses are your business and you train, buy, sell, show, etc then you are already living that lifestyle. Then, boarding augments your operation because your infrastructure is in place. Additional to the basic board, you might earn money training your boarders as well.

We own (to many) and board some. I work outside then come home and work some more. My wife works the farm full time (with no child to look after). We do enjoy it though and I wish I could be home full time. We are mentor to a number of young adults who might otherwise be doing something less shall we say healthy? There is nothing like witnessing a newborn foal or two (two is always better) come into this world and grow up. The rest of our families think we are nuts though because this is all we do. We are not bored and we don't miss hanging in the mall, etc. We don't vacation regularly and if we do go away, we fret over what is happening at home even though it is in capable hands. An outing consists of going to a farm or horse show or attending a class to upgrade our skills or to conform with new regulations. Oh, don't forget to look into the liability costs, horses tend to be prone to accidents.

[mfaley]

My 2 cents is that QRTRHRS is correct.

Most people really underestimate the costs. We sat down and figured out what it really costs us to keep a horse and it came out to a bit over $400/ month. Most folks we know think its closer to $300 until you menion all the small things.

Additionally, you have to factor in the cost of not being really knowledgable about horses.

As mentioned before I would avoid it until you know what the committment looks like.

Regards,
Mark

[UncleBuck]

Not counting the initial costs for barn, stalls,fencing (bought a old farm , most of infastructure was here already) , my costs per month are much closer to 150.00 per month per horse. This is for my own horses. I do have some boarders and the cost is lower (closer to 100) because they're Vet and Farrier Costs are added to their monthly bill
I agree with "ORTRHRS" 100% , GET EXPERIENCE FIRST, work with your neighbors to get the experience and as a added bonus you'll become "good neighbors", something we all need when living the rural life.
Good luck with whatever you decide

[MarineJAG]

You must have a love for horses prior to jumping in. My wife and I have been raising Arabians for the past eight years... After I get home from my paying job... its out to the barn... some days are easy... some not (especially when its as cold as its been). Something ALWAYS needs fixed on the barn... just when the vet is paid... one of the horses will do something stupid and you have to call the emergency vet yet again. If I didn't love it... I would hate it.