Frozen water pipes

[Pat]

Gary, Didn't you know as of a few years ago mice went metric. Yup MKS (meter kilogram second) Better you should have asked how many calories or kilo calories they produce. Answer, it depends on the breed, feed, and activity. A sample of one isn't too valuable as it likely wasn't a standard mouse anyway.

PM Egon for de-tails.. heh heh

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
PM Egon for de-tails.. heh heh

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a de-tailed mouse was a hamster! [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Isn't MKS a measure for horsepower? ie Ft Lbs/Min [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[egon]

The calories required will depend on how many meters you move Omega number of kilograms in Theta number of seconds at Epsilon elevation!! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Look -- I know I'm one of the duller knives in a lower drawer so it's not fair to take atvantage of the disadvantaged!! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[JazzDad]

I'm not even going near the math thing.

Pat, are we going to have a HUGE thread now on the de-construction of your house?
[img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

[Pat]

cjdave, Don't try to kid a kidder. MKS isn't a measure of power, mouse power or other wise, it is just the units for a self consistent system of measurements, meters, kilograms, and seconds. In this instance they aren't multiplied together, just listed.

Why such a dimuitive species (mouse) would choose MKS over say cgs (centimeter, gram, and seconds) defies rational thought.

I never thought about it but I suppose you could calculate mousepower (average, peak, whatever) and through precise calorimetry determine the total caloric output and derive thereby a measure of efficiency, useful mechanical output as a fraction of total output. This DOES NOT consider fuel conversion efficiency and makes no statement regarding the total available calories taken in vs those expended mechanically. That is subject for a very different study and might be forbidden in at least California and Mass. (See also T. Kenedy, B. Feinstein, S. Sarandon and the movement to proclaim all animals to be sentient beings with full rights under natural and man's law, e.g. the U.S. Constitution.)

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Gary, I think you got it in the right vein that time doc!

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[cwarrix]

Hey Pat, not sure about the mouse power thing, I chased all of our mice away with CAT power (5 barn cats) [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The mice didn't keep the barn warm, but they sure did leave a BIG mess for me to clean up !!!

But depending on where this box is located, it might be a good place for a compost bin. Wouldn't that produce enough extra heat to keep things warm. As well as adding extra insulation. And you would always remember where it is. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I assume some sort of solar heat would not really be all that helpful as it would be hard to store the energy without getting really expensive? What about wind energy? Could you generate enough power from a small windmill to run some sort of heating device? Decorative and functional !

Or, how about a miniature propane heater designed to ignite automagically when the temp hits n degrees? Then you could enclose a 20gal tank nearby, above, or under ground.

Can you design a remote thermometer to alert you when it drops below a certain temp?

I think I hate frozen pipes and leaky roofs more than any other homeowner type problem. It's the kind of things that keep me awake at night [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Pat]

cwarrix, I am afraid the rural water district folks might not appreciate having the water meter box burried under a compost heap but the idea is good and appeals to me.

Solar heat... lots of possibilities present themselves but none seem to be cost effective. We always seem to have plenty of wind... untill youi actually get the statistics for low level wind at YOUR location and then it falls short of that required to make a wind generator have a decent payback. Of course you want heat not electricity so the wind generator needs to drive a friction assembly or better yet churn water up and circulate it in an insulated jacket arond the meter assembly. Dynos for getting HP and torque readings for vehicles sometimes use the "water churn" technology as an energy sink. Churning the water heats it directly transducing mechanical energy to heat energy with little or no losses and little to wear out but bearings which are pretty well designed and built these days and quite long lasting.

You could combine the thermostatically controlled gas heater with the compost heap and run it on methane. There is a pilot ignition technology that uses platinum wire to ignite a gas flame. Platinum has the ability to rip hydrogen atoms out of hydrocarbons with such force that it creates heating of the platinum wire to incandescence which ignights the gas. No electricity or other energy sources required. The heat of the flame drives the hydrogen out of the platinum so it is ready to go next time.

There are commercial freeze alarms, some with remote RF links so that isn't a problem. The problem is when no one is home to receive the alert.

I think that by insulating the inside of the meter box and piling dirt up higher around it that I have improved it more than required to withstand sub zero temps. If there had been any water flow then it wouldn't have frozen as it was but I don't think you should need to waste water to avoid a freeze up if the engineering is done right.

Maybe I should conlsider a solenoid valve that opens when the freeze alarm in the meter box sends its warning signal. the solenoid would run water at the house into a tank until the freeze alarm went off and then repeat as required. If the tank overflows it can run off into a pond. I can then use the water from the tank for whatever so mostly it isn't wasted

Thanks for the ideas and mental stimulation. If the insulation isn't a complete cure I now have some alternatives.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Well, Pat, at least my water pipes haven't frozen yet, but night before last I noticed a lavatory faucet in a bathroom dripping. I thoroughly inspected it, even with flashlight and mirror to try to find a brand name, or anything else that might tell me who made it and where to get parts. At the same time, I was trying to determine how that thing would come apart. I gave up, went to other things, and came back to it 4 or 5 times yesterday with no luck at all. Then this morning, I turned off just the cold water; sure enough that was the one dripping. And I got stronger glasses on and inspected it again. Ah ha, finally found that tiny set screw (my hearing is terrible and my eyesight's getting worse), so I got it apart. I never worked on one with a "ceramic valve" before. Like most things, pretty simple once you get it apart and see what's there. But I still never found anything to indicate who made it. So, off to Home Depot. They had nothing remotely resembling this valve, but a guy there recommended a particular plumbing supply company in Lewisville. They had nothing like it either, but recommended another plumbing supply company in Farmers Branch. That one did not have one exactly like the original, but had two that were similar (with some minor differences). One was brass for a "designer" brand for $65 plus tax and the other was steel or chrome by Kohler for $26.34 plus tax. The cheaper one works just fine, and of course it's inside the unit where it can't be seen anyway. The really aggravating thing is that the leak has to be one or both of those two tiny ceramic disks, but they tell me you cannot buy any of the parts; have to buy the entire assembly.

It just annoys me that I couldn't buy two tiny pieces and fix the orginal valve, but I'll have to admit it's worth the $28.51 to not have a dripping faucet.

And it just really beats having frozen pipes. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]