Window Selection in new construction

[Leef]

Hi all,

This is Dian, Leef's wife posting [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I have taken on the challenge of trying to figure out the best window for our new construction this spring...I spent several hours over the weekend researching windows. I read a couple of the threads on here and then went to the websites mentioned. I finally feel like I have a basic understanding of what the "lingo" means: U factor, SHVC, VT, etc etc... But I still have some questions that I can't answer; I'm hoping you all can help.

First of all, does U factor vary with the size of the window? I know there is a distinction between the U factor of the glass and the U factor of the entire window...but does it also change with the size of the window?

Second, where do you find the NFRC ratings? Do the window companies tell you readily? Or do you have to drag it out of them? I don't know how many times I have looked at the NFRC website and clicked product ratings but that is where I get stuck......what is a CPD Number and where do I find it? ie where do I find the CPD number of the windows I am considering so that I can compare them? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Thank you!

Dian

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Dear Diane-with-no-"e", I'm not scientific enough to understand all of the letters and so forth that the windows specs contain so I don't have any technical answers for you, only direct experience. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] We recently swapped out a living room window that measured 40 high by 60 wide. This window was on the side of the house that took the brunt of every frigid breeze that came down from the Dakotas, and you could tell the wind was blowing by just walking through the living room. Worse yet, it was right in back of the couch so it cooled the back of our heads when we sat there in cold weather. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] We installed a PELLA Architect Series Casement window that has two crank out panels. The midsection is Argon-filled, and the window has a U-factor of .35, a solar gain coefficient of .30, and a visible transmittance of .50. It looks like we have a hole in our house because the glass is so clear. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I have to tell you that even with some exterior trim still not installed, there is zero air leakage. The wood casing keeps the window frame from following outside temps, and the seals are excellent. We used Oak stain on the wood and I made the extension jambs out of Oak as well. We used 4' fluted Oak as trim. I have to say that it is a pleasure just to LOOK at that window. That 40 X 60 cost about 700 with tax, and the 4" fluted Oak trim was another hundred; give or take a finish nail. This was the fifth Pella we have installed of various types. Three of the Pellas have the internal mini blinds. We like our new windows, and especially like the way they keep those chilly breezes out of this 106-year old farmhouse. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Leef]

CJDave,

Thanks for the reply. We are leary of buying and paying for name recognition, but have not heard complaints re: Pella windows. For our budget, we're looking at Pro Line series.

We had a recommendation from a friend who's built two homes recently to look at Hayfield vinyl windows which can come with wood interior surfaces and jam extenders for staining (or vinyl interior surfaces for bedrooms which we'll paint trim white in). We met their rep at a home show today and were impressed. The NFRC ratings are significantly better than Pella Pro Line. Now we're waiting for the cost take off.

The next controversy may be in the HVAC department: Has anyone heard of Goodman furnaces and AC condensers? In our area, this contractor is known for selling Carrier brand - but their bid specified a Goodman brand. Maybe this is a good off label company with good value?

Leef

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] One of my least favorite things to do is make extension jambs for windows and doors. So far I've made three sets, and all of them needed to be cut with taper on at least two of the pieces to adjust for house crookedness. The wood frame Pellas are easy to work with because all of the hardware dismounts easily for staining and varnishing. One of our replacement windows; a 45 wide X 60 high Pella; went in without extension jambs.....incredibly......and the wall was straight enough such that the trim pieces touched pretty well all the way around. We have a 900 square-foot expansion to do yet, and we hope to begin that work in the Fall of '06 or Spring of '07. our window schedule for that expansion calls for some octagonal non-openers, one corner crank-out casement type, and two side-by-side casements. We will probably buy Pella again; at least on the crank-out windows. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I don't know anything about the GOODMAN HVAC units. We installed a new LENNOX in September of 2004. When all is said and done we will have "zone" HVAC with our almost-new 75K Lennox handling this existing 1200 square feet, and a 50K Lennox in the addition. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

[lliefveld]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I have taken on the challenge of trying to figure out the best window for our new construction this spring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, just looking at this thread gives me a headache. We're probably going to break ground in April or May, and I understand that windows will have to be one of the first things we choose. I'm just simply dreading it. I know I want energy efficient. But I also know there are so many 'levels' of energy efficient. We have mild winters and hot summers, but our house has a covered deck on 3 sides. I really like the look and feel of wood, but I know it's much harder to maintain. I guess if it looked 'OK', I wouldn't mind vinyl too much (except I wonder about unhealthy gas emissions from vinyl).... but the only colors I see for vinyl are white or beige... and neither one will go very well with the outside of our house. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

[Pat]

Dian, U factor is the inverse of R-value. A U factor of 1 is equal to an R-vlaue of 1. An R-vlaue of 5 is equal to a U factor of 0.20 and so forth.

Whole window performance is what really counts because you install whole windows not an isolated chunk out of the middle. There are what we physicists call "edge effects." As the dimensions of the window are increased toward infinite then the U factor of the "window" tends to become equal to the U factor of the glass, its coatings, and any gaseous fill. The area of the window increases at a square rate while the perimeter (edges) grows linearly.

If a candidate manufacturer can't or won't supply you with any data you feel is mandatory for your selection process then elliminate that manufacturer and go on, there are lots of folks making windows. If you forget about name recognition or name dropability of the brand down to the country club, you'll find several candidates with good product, service and warranty.

I have no axe to grind with Anderson, Pella, or any other highly advertised brand but you shoulld be aware of a few things:

1. You are paying dearly for their name recognition. A good sized chunk of your cost is a heavy advertising budget.

2. According to my general contractor who specializes in higher end custom construction, many of his clients have been brainwashed regarding certain brand names for windows and doors and it does not serve them well. He claims to have just as many manufacturing defects requiring replacement with the BIG names as for other manufacturers and sometime significantly more.

I got a Pella quote. I turned in my window list to several candidate sources and I did not go cheap in my final selection BUT I paid more than $30,000 less than the Pella quote. Now I know that $ is no object on your project but if saving several K$ while still getting good quality, performance, and waranty means nothing to you, donate the difference to a good charity or the nature Conservancy and feel good about it.

I had a couple window problems. One window had an almost microscopic crack in the outer glass. It grew and grew. The regional sales manager brought me a new sliding cartridge and replaced it for me past the warranty period with no hassle.

Another slider had an air leak, excessive infiltration. They sent a tech out who found an offending piece of plastic in a welded miter joint (yes they weld plastic.) He trimmed it flush and the window now seals just fine. Considering all the windows we bought, this is a good experience.

I also had a minor spot delamination problem with a Masonite brand fiberglass door. I offered to glue it and clamp it if they would provide the correct epoxy that wouldn't disolve anything that should be left intact. I was advised that they weren't set up to support DIY repairs and they came out and replaced the door wilth a new one.

Infiltration is an important issue with windows too. The best U factor doesn't mean squat if the window leaks air badly enough.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] OK, Pat......that does it.....!! I'm finally going to make this statement and let the dust that it might raise settle on whatever surface it chooses to fall upon. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] The ONLY person that I know of that seems to be in command of anywhere near the number of disciplines that you are is the guy on CSI....William Peterson..... and his character, Gil Grissom, is, of course, entirely fictional. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] It's almost hard to believe, Pat. Are you an anomaly, or have I just been away from the academic womb for so long that don't realize just how much there is that I don't know? ....I've tried real hard to "pay attention" for the last fourty years (graduated college in 1966), and I THINK I have a fairly broad educational background, but still...YOW...!!! [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] I think that your posts to this BBS may be eroding my self-esteem, and because of that, I'll need to go on some kind of government disability. Getting on workers comp or disability is an art form here in Iowa, so I'm in a good spot. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Dave, Thanks for the fine complimentary comments Dave, but I think you may be exaggerating. I have a fair memory and am 62 yrs old. That is a long time to have to soak up information. Like tall folks or fast running folks or whatever I can't take much credit for having a memory or whatever, I just grew up this way. I also take size 13 and 14 shoes but had no control over that either. My one brother-in-law labeled me an "information junky" and I suppose he was not far from the mark.

Regarding windows... I researched windows a bit for the house project. My first Government job was energy conservation officer for SUBASE San Diego and while there I took some courses from the AIA (like the AMA is for doctors the AIA is for architects.) The classes were in energy efficient architecture and daylighting.

I know what you mean about disability being a cottage industry. I have friends and neighbors who are afraid to hire help on their place because of the liklihood of someone working just long enough to collect a few checks to show that they are employed by someone and then being "INJURED" on the job and claimig workman's comp and or suing the landowner. It is a sad state of affairs.


[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]