Reverse Osmosis Filter

[speedbump]

Sounds like they hired the water guy before he finished his water plant operator schooling. Bad choice on someones part. For my money I choose well water from a good deep source. None of these shallow wells that are full of chemicals. I have never lived anywhere that I couldn't drink the tap water and have the confidence that it was far better than bottled water (since we don't know for sure where that water comes from) and safer to drink. I feel sorry for anyone that has to worry about their drinking water.

Having said all that, I think RO under sink systems are simply false security. Most people have them installed and forget about them. That's more dangerous than not having one at all.

Have you ever changed out a charcoal filter that someone has had in service for 3 or more years? It's disgusting.

bob...

[egon]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I choose well water from a good deep source

[/ QUOTE ]

Even deep well water has a source that via which contaminates can enter and percolate to your well bore.

Egon

[egon]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Yes RO is great, but you can do the same filtration for a lot less money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Only some will be removed by filtration. RO gets them all.


Egon

[robertn]

Come on by the house. I'll let you have a drink from the well [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Honestly, our well is pretty bad; Iron and other muck are in there. The water comes out tannish in color. All the wells on our side of the hill are like that.

We have a pleated filter for gross chunks, then softener, and then RO at the kitchen sink.

We fill the softener, clean and/or replace the pleated filter, and backwash the RO regularily. You are right on the money; if you do not maintian the system, it will give false security. We also have the well tested a couple times a year.

The RO water is definitely cleaner than bottled water. We use the bottle water, then refill a couple times from the RO.

[Pat]

rfawles, While I would agree that in recent decades the filtration technology available to the consumer/homeowner has greatly improved and that most biologics can be filtered out economically, your statement, "Yes RO is great, but you can do the same filtration for a lot less money." is not entirely accurate.

Commonly available filters that are less expensive than RO do not remove many disolved solids. Systems that do remove disolved solids are distilation or more extensive and expensive chemical units with chemical precipitation and such.

Not all disolved solids are bad so in many cases they need not be removed in order to have safe water and RO is not neccessarily the system of choice. There are however areas, especially in the southwest where there is sometimes significant quantities of salt and similar chemicals which are not removed with "ordinary" filtration. I have spent time in areas where there was significant quantities of arsenic in the water (see also Lost Dutchman's Mine.) As I was not there long enough to get much arsenic it was more a calculated and theoretical risk that a clear and present danger to our health, short or long term. However if we lived there we would need to treat our well water for arsenic. One way to do that is with RO which removes most "disolved stuff."

In some areas nitrates (from fertilizer) constitute a danger to the health of water consumers. Typical RO systems don't do so good against nitrates but the ones that operate at higher pressures (150psi or more) can get most nitrates.

If we had a nitrate problem with our rural water I would probably treat it with a special resin bed (like a water softener but optimized for nitrates.) I recall that out in California there were companies selling water softeners with part of the resin bed filled with the resin optimized for nitrates so for the same salt use you removed the fertilizer from your water along with "hardness."

America's "Salad Bowl" is the Imperial Valley (Imperial County, east of San Diego County.) Open loop irrigation is used and the fertilizers, pesticides, and other ag chemicals end up in the Colorado river along with minerals leached out of the alkali croplands. This water is then one of the major sources of potable water for San Diego and vicinity. Water quality is an issue out there. That is where I first started using RO. Rather than line up enough different types of filter units to handle all the variious challenges (and not knowing what I might miss), I used RO and activated charcoal like a shotgun to try to hit the worst of the most.

Again, filtration for the masses has improved. I haven't installed RO in the new house. I do have a hand pumped "back packers" water purification unit which we cary in our camper (we don't sleep on the ground as much as we used to) that I could use on our pond water if a real emergency event demanded.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[GaryQWA]

No filter will remove what and as much of it as a RO membrane does. Viruses go right through a membrane and there is no filter that will remove them. There is a filter that will remove bacteria but RO should nor be used on water containing bacteria.

Actually RO does not remove 100% of anything so at best it reduces the volume of this'n that and, all RO has pre and post filters that remove 'things' in the water. All types of arsenic and lead etc. are not 'removed' by RO, and RO will reduce Nitrates and Nitrites. Nitrate specific anion resin is what is used in a regenerated filter (a softener actually) or as top dressing in a softener. Top dressing is not all that good.

No carbon or RO should be used on waters of unknown microbiological content. IOWs, no bacteria. Bacteria love the environment and organics in carbon, and all RO contains at least one carbon filter. All ROs have multiple pre-treatment requirements; like no H2S, no iron, TDS limits etc. and there are many types of membranes with at least three different kinds of membranes used depending on the water quality it is to used to treat.

I could go deeper into RO but I don't have the time. I will say that the vast majority of folks with a RO don't need it. They would do their water just as good with a dual stage drinking water filter with the proper cartridges in it.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

[Pat]

Gary, When you say dual stage filter... What two stages. carbon and something? What would the something be?

What do you think about the silver elements as bacteriastatic adjuncts to potable water treatment?

I have two water dispensing friges and their filters do OK with our treated rural water but I intend to install some point of use filters to feed the separate little spigots installed or about to be installed at various sinks for cooking and drinking water. I am sure open to suggestions. The water to be treated is chlorinated rural water that is fairly soft as it is lake water (rain water.)

I know that out in the west the term "lake water" doesn't mean squat since many lakes are used as water storage devices and the source of the water could be very hard and alkali tainted (Colorado river or worse.) Not the case in this water supply.

I have two whole house filters in series, first a 200 mesh prefilter with drain ball valve so it never needs to be opened up for cleaning and the screen is permanent. This was to keep the "CHUNKS" out of the changable media particulate filter which is the last in the chain. I was intending to install taste and odor carbon filters. Do you think I need to consider anything other than activated carbon.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[GaryQWA]

Yes, sediment and carbon block. They are disposable cartridges. The filter has a long reach RO faucet.

Next to no one sells silver impregnated carbon filters anymore. Silver doesn't kill bacteria, it creates an environment that bacteria don't like. And all carbon comes with a caution to not use it on water of unknown microbiological content; IOWs, free bacteria. All carbon removes taste and odor causing problems.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

[AndyC]

Gary may be right concerning membrane and viruses, but there are filters that remove viruses upto a log-5 (99.999%). Only one company produces an RO that is certified by WQA as an effective virus, bacteria and protozoa barrier system. This system an even be used on boil alerts.

Also, I disagree that the VAST majority of owners of ROs don't need them. That, being a subjective statement, is not really valid concening personal wants and needs of water treatment equipment. And water would not "do just as good" with a dual filter system as compared to an RO.

Andy CWS

[GaryQWA]

Yes Doulton ceramic candles and some other filters remove bacteria and the ceramics are reusable but what more or less common filter removes viruses Andy?

As to the RO "need", there is very little proven need but yes, there are many MANY people, actually the vast majority of RO owners, that just "want"ed one.

When a Kinetico salesman such as yourself proposes one that is WQA Certified and speaks to the person's "want" without finding a water test based "need", they are being sold something.

With a $1000+/- price tag while it's very proprietary, how many of them are you 'selling'?

Also, most people with a RO simply want to remove the smell and taste of chlorine "and anything else that might be in the water" and do so without the salesperson telling them there probably won't be anything else in their water. I call that scare tactics. I hear that from RO owners or wanna be owners just about everyday. Since I have 4 times the experience in water treatment than you do, maybe you haven't heard that as often as I have. Plus I have 10 years answering posts and I believe you have about a tenth of that experience.

And we both know that the membrane in all ROs does not remove odor or most causes of bad tastes, the carbon pre and post cartridges do that and all ROs contain carbon cartridges of one kind or another; GAC and/or carbon block. They fit common industry standard off the shelf housings in 1-4 stage drinking water filters that install in the basement or under the kitchen counter the same as ROs. And they are much less expensive to purchase and maintain, do the same job as they do in a RO and use the same faucets as a RO while there is no storage tank to take up valuable space under the sink.