Popcorn

[Bird]

OK, Egon, I only looked at the box, the list of ingredients, nutritional information, etc. and the outside of the individual packages. When I remove the bag from the outer wrapper on one next time maybe I'll find more.

[Pat]

Has anyone a reference to an authoritative source (not junk science) that says Teflon is a danger to humans? Maybe I just haven't been paying attention but I thought the danger of Teflon was that it can emit PHOSGENE gas when heated to very high temps. If you put a Teflon coated pan on the stove top and turn the burner up you can emit Phosgene, a poison gas used in WW I. Below the temp where that reaction takes place I believe Teflon is extremely inert.

Any refs to credible scientific studies or published papers in refereed journals commonly accepted as "informed sources?" Examples would be JAMA, The Lancet, etc.

When looking in Google you get inundated in junk science on this topic. DANGEROUS POISONUS CHEMICALS ARE USED IN ITS MANUFACTURE!!!!! Salt is made out of two very dangerous chemicals, sodium and chlorine, both are virulent poisons but where are the scare stories regarding the salt on microwave popcorn?

At or above about 460F Teflon can break down and produce Phosgene gas a dangerous poison. If you don't have a good range hood with powered exhaust and can't remember to put food in a pan you have sitting on a burner turned up high then perhaps you should consider not having Teflon pans in your kitchen.

Water based foods (most are) will not let a pan get hot enough to even be a concern. It is difficult to get food heated to temps much above the boiling point of the water they contain. Now if you let a pan boil dry then of course the temp will go up and you could achieve temps above 460F (along with a lot of smoke and odor of burned food.) This would not be a "stealthy" process that you would be unaware of. You won't get a container of food heated above 460F and not know it, poisoning your self and others unwitingly. The food will be a scorched and hardened lump of inedible residue likely much worse that the worst hardened lump of scorched residue ever served to you under any circumstances (like eating charcoal brickettes.)

There are popcorn popping appliances that go inside of your microwave. They are moderately priced at Wal-Mart. They allow the use of flavorings and oils if desired which makes them more versitile than an air poppper whiich forbids the use of flavorings and oils in the popping chamber. I like popcorn from most poppers including a cast iron fry pan or dutch oven. It took a while to get used to the air popper since it didn't produce corn like momma used to make. I also like microwave popcorm and usually use the low fat type. I too disagree with the servings information on the bag or box. If we share a bag it contains precisely two servings. If we do not share it then it contains exactly one serving.

If after divesting yourself from the junk science sensationalist press and misguided web info and still are uneasy about Teflon or are afraid yoiu will scorch empty pans with no range hood then avoid it. If you avoid everything proclaimed to be BAD on the WWW I'd sure be interested in seeing a log of what you ate for a month.

Note, I am not promoting the use of Teflon in the kitchen. I don't have stock in Dupont. I do, however, tend to not be stampeded by the National Enquirer level of science reporting that has a bunch of uninformed bozos quoting each other similar to the INFORMED SOURCES that still report on the VALIDITY of crop circles.

Now if popcorn were properly genetically engineered to have a Teflon coating on the outer shell of the kernel then you wouldn't need Teflon pans!

Oh, and by the way Teflon is what makes the "miracle" fabric, GORETEX work. Avoid folks with Goretex parkas or boots as if they get overheated they may emit poisonous gas.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

One site:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/forum06/A-03.htm

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Thanks, Egon. Excellent reference. That is the first half of the required information. The chemicals do migrate in extremely small quantities into people. Before there should be widespread excitement we need to get an additional scientifically derived result. This additional result is that there is a measured toxic effect of some sort attributed to the substance at the levels of contamination measured.

There are myriad man made substances turning up in humans. Some pose a clear and present risk and some don't. If the Teflon related substances are shown to cause human health problems, in the concentrations normally observed, I will abandon Teflon cookware, at least in high temp applications as I don't think Teflon at below or not much above body temperature will migrate into a persons body anywhere near like eating hot microwaved popcorn. OR doing high temp cooking with a Teflon skillet.

As a person with lots of electronics hands on experience with Teflon coated wiries I think the lead exposure through soldering was probably much more dangerous than the Teflon exposure.

I have a perfectly good set of stainless steel pots and pans with thick aluminum pads on the bottoms for even heat spreading so it isn't like I can't dodge Teflon in high temp cooking. My highest temp cooking is in a wok and of course it is not Teflon coated.

We'll have to monitor the "informed sources" and see what if any prelim results are found in toxicity studies that would quantify the risk.

Thanks for the above site, Egon.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

There are some sites showing workers in the industry have been afflicted with disorders arising from the packaging of micro wave popcorn. Just backtrack on the site that was posted.

There are some lawsuits pending.

If I recall correctly I once read/was told/heard?? that if you have canaries in the house you can't use Teflon cookware?? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

Perhaps a canary should be REQUIRED in a house with Teflon cookware. If the canary dies, go get yourself checked out. Of course you'd have to be sure the canary didn't die from natural causes.

[Pat]

Egon, I'm not sure what you mean by "backtrack" so I read some EPA documentation and other of the less non-sensational sources. So far I have found evidence that materials used in the manufacture of Teflon, not Teflon itself, has potential harmful effects.

As regards there being lawsuits over Teflon, probably so, and just about every other thing that can be sued over is being sued over irrespective of the validy of the basis of the suit.

I do try to keep an open mind. If you could direct me to a specific site with info showing Teflon itself to be a hazard (at normal cooking temperatures) I would be very appreciative. I would also have a whole set of new rifle targets. Since I don't MAKE Teflon and don't have exposure to its original ingredients then that issue is not of direct importance to me.

As a social issue, with proper documentation, I might support tighter regulation of the hazardous materials used in manufacturing Teflon but need to have a lot more evidence from credible sources than I have seen to date before I think a ban, boycott or any restriction in the use of Teflon is warranted.

If you are making Teflon then you may be exposing yourself to health hazards. If you are letting hazardous substances used in its manufacture escape into the environment then you are poluting and need regulations/enforcement to curtail/control your activity.

Pat

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

This refers to some of the vapours from the flavorings.

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/2...xic28feb04.htm

Egon

[Pat]

Egon, I'm sorry but I don't see the connection with Teflon. Surely at sometime someone has been hit over the head with a popcorn popper, bag of popcorn, or slipped on spilt popcorn oil but what has it to do with Teflon?

If you'd like to change the topic to THE EVILS OF POPCORN instead of the EVILS OF ONE OF THE CHEMICALS USED TO MAKE TEFLON that is OK with me. Think of all the teeth chipped or broken on popcorn! Think of the mercury poisoning due to disturbed or dislodged amalgam fillings as a result of popcorn.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[egon]

I surrender while awaiting information from my son. He was the source.

Till then I'll admit defeat and go have a bag of microwave popcorn for breakfast! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]