Bull risks

[Pat]

A friend who has 10 head on my place running in common with mine has now lost two mammas and their calves. The one died last night or early this AM and I went looking for the calf but no joy, I found half a calf. Looked like a big one but the predators/scavengers got the back half.

That makes two mammas and three calves in less than a month. We have been trying to figure what is common to them and our leading candidate is the rent-a-bull that was involved (since returned) The bull was CRAZY. When the rental operator came to pick it up he went into the pen over our objections and the bull ran him out. (some measure of justice)

My friend has subsequently purchased a very nice Angus bull with terrific disposition and throws low birth weight calves that are fast gainers (pure textbook case of exactly what you want.)

I am a little gunshy after this series of events. I have a terrific looking young bull but he is unproven. We wil turn him in with cows (no first time heifers) and see what we get. If we luck out with small calves that gain fast then next time I will use him on any of my first time heifers. Meanwhile I will use my friends excellent bull.

I estimate my friends monetary loss at about $3500. My friend has over 40 years as a cattleman but isn't as cautious as I was and now I'm likely to be just short of paranoid.

Oh, and he nearly borrowed a pistol to shoot the first cow that went down with a calf upside down and backward hanging part way out. Instead we called a vet, pulled the dead calf, gave the cow several shots a day for 3 days with expensive medicine and then she died. Luckily this one died too fast to call a vet and waste more $.

Pat

[hudr]

I strongly dislike crazy cattle. I have begun a policy of selling a crazy cow and her calf. No sense letting those genes get loose in the herd. However, a longtime friend and cattleman informed me over breakfast at the cafe one morning that I needed to keep one crazy cow, bred or not. His logic was thus: If you sell the one crazy cow, the rest of them get together that night and elect another cow to be crazy. But the newly elected nut will be crazy in a different way. Best to stay w/ something you already know. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Honestly thought, sorry for all the loss and heartache. Scenarios like that will make you seriously consider AI only breeding.

[Pat]

My bull came from another friend who has terrific genetics in his herd. He has a good sized operation and always culls out any animal that is substandard or not according to his template. I got my bull and two heifers from him as they were just a tad too young to make his fall shipment. He actually had 10-12 who were too young to make it but these were his picks for me (the rest went to town.)

He is big enough that the auction in OKC sends an 18 wheeler down to his place to take his stock to auction. The rest of us scurry around with stock trailers behind pickups. He always buys great bulls and mercilessly culls cows based on performance. I have high hopes for the bull I got from him. This little bull is just about 16 months old and soon we will put him to work. I got a "show quality" heifer from him too and she isn't related to the little bull so I have great expectations for that match up.

OF course we will test him on some cows with a documented past performance so see how he does. I won't risk using him on first time heifers, just in case. I will be disappointed if I have to send him to town.

Lots of AI around here but I do not personally get involved. I think I'm too small of an operation to go that way.

Well, It bothers when a friend who has been so helpful to me has problems and there isn't much of anything I can do about it. I have never rented a bull but I know various folks who have and it was a good deal for them except THIS TIME. That particular bull was mentally defective and who knows what other genetic defects he could have had.

Crazy cattle: One day I was over across the road helping a friend handle some stock. He warned me that one of the cows was aggressive so I picked up a small branch. I find that if you extend the branch out like a fencing foil aimed right in their face that they won't usually advance through it. He had a length of 2x6 used to keep animals from backing up in a chute. The cow cam at him and he hit her smack dab in the forehead shen shook her head and charged. He broke the 2x6 over her head and she backed off. A few minutes previously I had fended her off a couple times with my little branch. Different approaches like different karate styles (hard vs soft.) Both work.

Pat

[egon]

If my memory serves me right back on the real farm bulls were chosen from a reliable breeder and were only kept for maybe 5 years. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

My friends bull is only going on 4 yrs but is getting toooo big and will be sold this fall. Mine is about 700-750 lbs and not quite ready yet.

His is a terrific bull with good results. I have hope that mine will do as well but only time will tell. I don't have a pedigree on my bull but the friend who let me buy the bull buys only very good bulls and no other stock. He does not introduce ANY animals into his herd except bulls bought from reputable sources (for example the Parker Ranch) with good test results and genealogy.

Still there are lots of random factors and my little SUPER BULL may be making his debut at a fast food chain well ahead of schedule without a bit of luck.

Pat

[TJB]

Neighbor down the road was killed by a dry cow in September, he thought it was funny when she chased his wife a couple of weeks before.


Tom in Vermont

[eccentricfarmer]

Anything even close to aggression gets culled and eaten. The herd is pretty nice now to work with except for the bull that i am not allowed to cull and has to go on the truck. Once all the adults leave will start working the calves left and make them more tractable.

Just think how empty jails would be if we applied the same standards for the humans as we do for our animals!! But that is civilization. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[moearle]

I am new to all of this, but find it very interesting-can I ask a stupid question?..what do you mean by a dry cow? thanks in advance moearle

[Bird]

A dry cow is simply one that is not currently producing milk.

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] In order to re-establish the estrus cycle, under range conditions, a cows will wean her calf after the calf is too big to be nursing, and that gradually causes the cow to quit producing milk. THEN after the cow is bred, she will once again come in milk when the calf is born, and another lactation period begins. Normally in managed dairy herds, the dairymen keep the cows in milk for about 305 days, they breed them while they are still in the milking string, and then gradually dry them off so they can then gestate and freshen when the calf is born. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Some of this info might be a little old since we sold our dairy cows in '62. I haven't missed them yet. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]