Gas water heater

[GaryM]

Well Pat, all I can say to refute your well reasoned technical analysis is "Your explaination, while technically correct, doesn't jibe with real world experience".

Fact: With no Metlund running I need to run water from the HOT pipe down the drain for about 45-50 seconds to get warm water to wash my hands. With the system I can press the button and by the time I remember why I'm in the room I can wash with warm to hot water and none has gone down the drain! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Now explain to Bird and Egon why if you start a journey and cover half the distance in a certain time interval, and half the distance in each of many more intervals, you never reach your destination. I think it explains why I'm often late to work. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
With no Metlund running I need to run water from the HOT pipe down the drain for about 45-50 seconds to get warm water to wash my hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me, too. Our hall bath is just across the hall from the water heater so we get hot water there rather quickly. the kitchen is a little farther off, so it takes a little longer, but not TOO bad. But the bath off the master bedroom is at the farthest corner of the house. When I go to shower, I first turn on the hot water in the shower AND in both lavatories. I'm not sure just how much water I'm wasting, but it's more than I want to. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

Bird,

I'm sure that in a practical world, the Metlund system or similar would help you quite a bit. You do need AC to run the pump though.

[egon]

Gary, just send me 1/2 a penny for every half of a half on the way to work! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

How would you like those half pennys cut? WaterJet? Laser?

[egon]

Any which way is fine! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Maybe an automated power press would be advisable! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[egon]

This hot water has really got me confused. Not only cannot I understand the systems the reasoning also evades me as the systems seem to be be complex.

Why not install a small electric on demand heater in series with the main heater and very near the water demand point. Set it at a low comfortable temperature well below the main heater. This gives a nice introduction to hot water and also allows time to lather up. The on demand heater becomes a line bump as soon as the main hot water hits.

The human system should not be subjected to sudden great temperature changes! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

That could be an option. In fact I considered that to feed my master bath shower to allow virtually unlimited hot water at that location. It wouldn't take too large a unit to boost temp from maybe 80 to 105 or so.

But as we always learn, you can't have everything. But I keep trying.

[egon]

Perhaps another simple option if there is sufficient vertical separation would be a return line with a spring loaded poppet type valve at the demand point. At no flow the poppet valve opens and allows for thermal siphoning effect. At flow the pressure would close the poppet valve. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Of course this would waste some energy in warm months. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Lets save Zeno's paradox for the end of this post.

Gary, I know you revel in the perceived opportunity to both disagree with me and be correct but I don't get it. I really don't. I don't see where anything I said is contrary to what you describe in your last post. Do we find ourselves in violent agreement? I would be amazed if after we both understand fully what the other is saying that we would have much, if anything, left in dispute.

There was a college party where a big girl-boy game was to be played. The instructions/rules went like this: all the men line up on one side of the room and all the women lined up on the other side. All the men get a shot of whiskey and get to go half way to the women. They then get another shot and go half the remaining distance. This is repeated as required.

The budding young scientists and mathematicians turned and walked out but the would be engineers, ad execs, telephone sanitizers, art historians, Elizabethan poetry analysts, and such stayed behind with GREAT EXPECTATIONS.

The scientists and math dudes knew they would NEVER get to the girls but the engineers et al knew they would get close enough!

Something about an infinite number of infinitesimals summing to a finite result.

In your case Gary, reduce the length of the time intervals such that they approach zero then an infinite number of them can be accomplished in finite time. See also, Calculus.

Pat