Keeping a Pond Clean...

[Pat]

Egon, You said "put each in a clear mason jar that has had the corn squeezings removed." By the time I finished removing the squeezins from the first two jars I forgot what it was you wanted me to do and why. Maybe if I had some pint jars instead of quarts???

Pat

[kellenw]

Pat,
You have quite a complex situation with your ponds. I'll be happy to take a stab at this (I love a challenge), but I'm definately not a biology expert (just a fan), so keep that in mind. hehe...

It sounds like this last pond in chain 1 (the one prior to the final pond that shares watershed with both chains) that stays fairly turbid has a large amount of suspended clay particles. The ponds further upstream seem to receive enough fresh water to keep them fairly clear. However, as the water flows through chain 1, somewhere along the line it is disturbing a lot of clay in the process. It seems this particular pond is the "dumping grounds" for all the particulate accumulation from the other ponds. Your final pond that shares the watershed of both chains is able to stay relatively clear due to the increased water volume it receives to flush the "clay water" out.

So, my GUESS is that you have an issue somewhere in this chain of ponds where moving water is hitting a large exposed area of soil that contains a large amount of clay.

Anything that would lead you to think this might be possible? Anywhere along the line that you see any considerable erosion? Any other thoughts or guesses that MIGHT make this be possible?

[Pat]

kellenw, Here is a rough sketch (really really rough) that will help, I hope, in describing the situation.

North is at the top. The horizontal lineat the top is the highway running E-W. A seasonal stream runs in a culvert under the highway into #1. It gets runoff from the pastures and pond overflows on the north side of the highway. #2 overflows into #1 (no drain pipe.) #1 overflows into #3 with no drain pipe. #3 overflows through a drain pipe into the seasonal stream leading to #4.

#5 overflows into #6 down a seasonal creek. #6 overflows via drain pipe into #7 which overflows via drain pipe into #4. #4 drains off of the property via seasonal creek.

# 8, 9, 10, and 11 are isolated and do not drain into another pond on my property nor are they fed from another pond on or off my property. Note, #10 is the pond with no number in the sketch.

Here are their characteristics:
1. Pretty clear most of time. Clears fast after a rain with or without overflow from upstream.

2. Like #1 except receives no overflow, just watershed.

3. Mostly clear, some turbidity but not red muddy look.

4. mostly clear, gets muddy from overflow from muddy pond upstream (#6 & #7) but gets clear again in a few days.

5. mostly clear, clears up quickly after a rain.

6. Always muddy (red colored) varies in degree but always poor visibility, never clears but not quite so bad as #7.

7. Always really muddy with red muddy look, never clears.

8. Always very muddy, never clears.

9.Always clear except after hard rain but clears up again quickly.

10. Always clear except after hard rain but clears up quickly.

!!. Just built, not even 10% full has only experiences 3 inches of rain. Hope for clear but may be muddy, we'll see.

Before I built #6 I observed #7 to always be very muddy and when it overflows into #4 it made #4 muddy too but #4 would clear right up while #7 stayed perpetually muddy. Then I built #6 which receives overflow from a clear pond, #5, but stays muddy anyway.

It is as if #4 is "ordained" to be clear and when made quite muddy by runoff from #6 and #7 it clears itself up in a few days.

Some of these ponds have springs or seeps feeding them as well as watershed and upstream sources. #6 has clear springs/seeps running into it as does #4 and probably #1 as they both are drought tolerant.

The overflow drain pipe for #6 dumps directly into #7 which in turn Dumps directly into #4.

I think the biggest mystery is why #4 resists staying muddy and why #7 and #6 stay muddy. I was told some fish stir the mud but #6 was muddy for the 2 years before it was stocked.

Reviewing the drawing I realize I have lost count. There is a 12th pond which is small like #8 but stays clear except for cloudiness after a hard rain. #8 is bright red mud color all the time. I have never fished it and don't know if it has fish. It has turtles and frogs.

The ponds froze over with a thin layer of ice a few times but are thawed now. It was in 40's last night and will hit low 60's today. On sunny "warmish" days between cold ones the turtles come out on logs to sun themselves. They can't digest food when their internal temp drops too low so they sun themselves as an aid to digestion.

If I could do something not terribly expensive or difficult to make some of the muddy ponds stay clear I would be happy even if I never found out why some are muddy and some clear by their nature and why they defy change.

I understand the comments regarding erosion and moving water as a source of turbidity. Last year was the worst drought on record in the state. The muddy ponds stayed muddy as they tried to dry up. the clear ponds stayed clear. Some of the clear ponds are spring fed and those stayed nearly full AND CLEAR. #6 stayed muddy and did not get too low as it is also spring fed.

Solve the mystery and I will submit your name in a drawing where you may qualify to win a swell prize.

Pat

[JazzDad]

Perhaps the ionic bond of those clay particles can be broken down with gypsum or lime. That may be treating the symptom, and not the cause, but if that's what you have to do...

Egon's Mason jar method will also work with small portions of these additives to see if they will bring the particulates out of suspension. Just watch your ph.

[Pat]

Jazz, I know that the electric charge on the finely divided clay causes the individual pieces to repel each other and not clump together and fall out of suspension. the real mystery to me is why some of the ponds, even if filled with muddy water from a permanently muddy pond, soon clear up.

Alum is an agglutinating agent but I don't want to dump tons of alum into the ponds every time it rains hard.

I do have the one little isolated pond which is the muddiest of all. I could experiment with it. Its overflow does not go into any other of my ponds and it does not receive overflow from any pond, just runoff from its water shed. It NEVER clears and is a poster child for Oklahoma red colored ponds.

Take a look at the sketch and accompanying description and see if any ideas come to you about why some ponds try to stay clear and some muddy when they are adjacent and connect to each other.

Pat

[egon]

Would it be reasonable to suggest that those ponds relying on overflow are more cloudy than those that seem to have an underground water supply?

[Pat]

Egon, At least one of us contributed to a lack of communication. I intended to make it clear that one of the always muddy ponds has significant clear spring water input even when it is not getting overflow from upstream and not getting any contribution from its watershed. This is the CATFISH pond which did not get as seriously low during the record drought as any of my ponds without significant spring input. Some of the clear ponds have similar spring input and in that respect seem the same yet act differently.

Some of the clear ponds are isolated and only get input from their water shed. Likewise I have isolated muddy ponds whose only input is their watershed. Simple visual inspection does not reveal any major differences in the quality of the watershed.

Pat

[egon]

Being in the fifth day of a debilitating cold/flu communication or clear thing may not be in the realm of my present capabilities! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Several evenings ago I had the pieces of silver in hand if they were required! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Egon, Sorry to hear a bug bit you. Pieces of silver in hand??? Silver bullets? You hunt werewolves???

I know one sure fire way to remove the mud (suspended clay) from pond water but it is way to expensive for me. Since the suspended clay has an electrical charge which repels the other bits they don't clump together and settle out. An electrical device to attract the clay to an electrically charged plate similar to an electrostatic precipitator used as a scrubber for a smoke stack or similar. It would require an automated means of removing the accumulated clay from the charged plates to keep it working.

In effect it would work similar to the way the the "Ionic Breeze" type air filters are touted to work (but which unfortunately are EXTREMELY poor air filters.)

Hope you are back in battery soon and shake off the bug. If you take care of yourself and get sufficient rest and liquids you should be recovered in 2 weeks whereas if you just take stuff to make you feel better and you don't rest a lot then it will probably take 14 days to get better.

Pat

[egon]

Darned if I know Pat but it seems to have been upgraded/downgraded to pneumonia. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I'm still keeping my pieces of silver fare handy!

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]