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Thread: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

  1. #11
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    HMI is an interesting field (Human Machine Interface which was MMI back in the chauvinistic dark ages), the way we interact with machines. Ever notice how some software just seems to be easy to run/navigate even though it has lots of features and can do lots of stuff? That is usually no accident but a result of careful design, often evolved over time with input from users/testers. Same story with lots of machines and such. Some are easy to master and some may make the designer happy but no one else.

    Luckily in the automotive world the brake, clutch, and throttle are in the same order from vehicle to vehicle and clockwise rotation of the steering wheel turns the vehicle to the right.

    Web design can be an interesting task. Good luck to you with your site.

    Pat
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  2. #12
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    Probably the worst example of a poor MMI design (this example IS from the DARK AGES of computing, i.e. over 20 years ago.) was a mini-computer called "Four Phase". We had to use it on a project for Motorola because, as I recall, it was made by Motorola. Anyway, the keyboard layout would change every time you changed programs, i.e. the text editor would use one layout, the accounting program would use another, etc. The basic QWERTY would not change but other keys did. Of course, the letter physically etched on the key wouldn't change. so you needed a plastic overlay to find where the other keys had moved. I was not surprised to hear that those machines did not sell very well.

  3. #13
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    You should be so lucky as to only have suffered the plastic overlay redefinition curse.

    I feel your pain. I was in software development for several years either as my top priority or other duty as assigned. I even got to be the default web master for a computer based training development group for a while (as well as co-manager or the 30 person development team.) Lots of bright young designers are sure they have a better way but their way is usually not compatible with other's better way or the established standards.

    On large development projects the work must be divided up to allow parallel development. This introduces the likelihood of different groups having a different look and feel to their portion of the development. Ever see an okapi? It is an animal that looks to have been designed by a committee where each committee member did his part his way. The software to which you refer sounds like the different parts (modes?) may have been developed by different folks with no direct supervision to enforce common standards.

    I don't, in general, like many MS software products but at least they are fairly good at enforcing a common look and feel which reduces training time on new releases and new products and ditto for many Apple applications.

    Without some standardization we'd all suffer from terminal Tower of Babble syndrome.

    Pat
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  4. #14
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE


    Were not these overlays to protect the keyboard from Spaghetti sauce! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #15
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    Requiring multiple overlays may have involved spaghetti but more likely spaghetti code than spaghetti sauce.

    Pat
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  6. #16
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    Pat,
    Not so sure about the spaghetti code, but it sure showed lack of concern for a consistent user interface. Regarding your comments on standards: Standards are funny things. They ensure that there is some consistency in s/w code. BUT.. that also means they can stifle creativity and ingenuity at the same time. Nothing worse than picking up some gibberish with no comments and trying to make a change when the temp programmer was long gone. Code development today in the commerical world is worse than it's ever been. I call it bloatware. The only thing that's saved us is the processors are faster than ever and memory (RAM & disk storage) is dirt cheap. This allows any yahoo that picks up a '(whatever) for Dummies' to develop a program or website and they call him a genius. Ok, just had to rant... Back to my cave.

  7. #17
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I feel like a dinosaur reading through the posts about the computer stuff. FORTRAN was the big deal when I was in college and at the time it seemed kind of irrelevant to my chosen field so I ignored it. I can still remember the Engineering 103 per-fesser driving home the point that: "Despite how good it may look, a row of eight identical levers is not good machine design." Just this last Fall when I was harvesting corn, I found that the big John Deere tractor that I was driving; which has armchair controls and four absolutely identical hydraulic valve actuating switches; was a huge problem because I had to reach for the switches without actually LOOKING at the switches and if I flicked the wrong one it was a grain spill catastrophe. I finally ended up putting a spring clothespin on switch number two so I could find it easier and find it without tripping number one. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I cannot even IMAGINE having to use a plastic keyboard overlay. To me that would be completely out of the question from a machine design standpopint, regardless of the "why". [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
    CJDave

  8. #18
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    CJDave,
    The fun part (NOT) was when someone misplaced the overlay for the program YOU needed to run and you'd hit 3 or 4 keys looking for the exclamation point. (I think in 1 program, they moved it to the semi-colon key). Yeah, I remember FORTRAN. That was the 1st language I learned in college, too. Actually, the older languages were not bad. They were structured, had rules, manuals to read, etc. I hated C++, because the data structures could be so confusing (i.e. an array of pointers to pointers of arrays, etc.) Some programmers would go nuts with the nesting of structures. I actually had programmers who couldn't agree on an expected outcome of a line of code. Than when it was executed, it gave a completely different result than any of them wanted. By the way, I used to walk 3 miles to school.....barefoot.....in the snow.... uphill both ways...... [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Comment on the original topic: This is the reason I read forums like this. A great tip for cutting plywood. I usually spend more time setting up sawhorses to support the piece than I do actually making the cut.

  9. #19
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    A while back in my spare time I taught software engineering classes in the evening for seniors in the computer science program and I taught the senior projects classes (12 quarter hour series) too. I have heard every imaginable variant of how having to follow the rules stifles creativity.

    I imagine that automotive engineering profs have to listen to that too. How would you like to own three vehicles, each with a creative user interface. One uses a tiller modeled after a boat where you push the tiller to the left to turn to the right, another with conventional steering (but with brake pedal on the right side of the accelerator) and a third that requires a counterclockwise turn of the steering wheel to turn to the right?

    Would you buy a house wired by a "creative" electrician, unfettered by codes?

    Software can be like that. There is a lot of psychology and human attributes to be taken into account before you develop the next "this is really cool" user interface. I appreciate creativity and when funneled into productive channels it is a good thing. Making things different just to be different or to suite one person but have training issues with everyone else is counterproductive.

    OK I confess, I was a maverick in school and not too far from the edges of the envelope some of the time as a prof and on the job where I designed systems that had to be used by Naval personnel and get it right. I never tried to stifle creativity but to channel it toward a productive end.

    Put some "Creative" code slingers in a group project where stable defined interfaces are absolutely mandatory and you soon see the utility of standards. The goal of programmers used to be to do something really cute, so obscure you would be the envy of everyone and be asked "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?" The real goal is to write code that is transparent such that any competent maintenance programmer can see exactly what you did and how to make changes. The former is a time and money waster while the later is nirvana.

    Pat
    "I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"

  10. #20
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    Re: HAY BALE SAWHORSE

    Pat,
    Amen to your last paragraph. Speakin of sawhorses.... speaking of saws...... I just took my tablesaw blade and a bunch of circular saw blades in to be sharpened. Guy took a look and said only 1 (10" Delta) was worth sharpening ($15). All the rest would cost more to sharpen than I could buy them new. Hated to just toss them, so I'll hang them on my pegboard for about 10 years THEN throw them out. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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