Cyclonic dust collection

[Pat]

I had read about bag houses in my literature search. A modern variant is a bunch of small sized cyclones.

I think I will be happy with the typical cyclonic system frequently used in woodworking. Transferring feed is a bonus, not the systems purpose.

Pat

[Pat]

Dave, I don't recall seeing a mobile unit as you describe. I don't have an overhead feed storage at this time. The 18 wheeler that delivers to my friends recycled oil tanks hauls 28 tons and uses an auger to move the feed.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Pheumatic unloading lends itself to tall silo applications, and the silo owners love it because they have almost no maintenance since the moving parts are on the truck. Plants with limited ground space like the pheumatic unload system because their storage can go UP and yet not require a system of augers or conveyors. They use it for all types of small grains, uncluding corn. I'm not so sure how well it would work with mixed feed, however. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Dave, several years ago, during our RVing days, we visited International Falls, MN (in the Summer) mainly because we'd heard of it frequently being the coldest spot in the nation at times during the Winter, and we knew absolutely nothing about International Falls when we drove in there (before our Internet access days). But we took the public tour of the Boise Cascade paper mill; very interesting and fascinating tour.

There was the absolute largest pile of wood chips I've ever seen a couple of city blocks from the paper mill, and a huge overhead pipe from the pile of wood chips to the plant. If that isn't the biggest pneumatic material transferring system in the world (and of course it may not be) I can't imagine what is.

But if anyone ever gets to International Falls, I'd highly recommend that free tour. I see here that they say they have the second largest and fastest paper making machine in the world. I don't know how big it is, but they were making some 9' wide rolls and one 13' wide roll of paper when we were there.

[Pat]

The 18 wheeler to which I referred earlier caries its own articulated auger to deliver the feed to overhead storage. It also has an auger inside the trailer and "valves" between storage compartments so the segmented storage can be unloaded sequentially.

The feed I have been using is corn gluten and soy hulls in a pelletized form with pellets about the size of wood pellets for stoves. The mechanical auger on the delivery truck has no problem with it and I suspect my dust collector will move it just fine. Even if a little wood dust gets into the feed that is a non-problem.

Oneida has a product called the "Dust Deputy" which is a mini-cyclonic unit that goes atop a bucket or drum and acts as a prefilter for a shop vac. All the big pieces and most of the fines fall out into the container at the prefilter (Dust Deputy) and not much makes it to the shop vac. This is a handy gadget. Opening a shop vac to dump stuff I find that usually the filter is clogged way before the storage volume is filled with debris. With a Dust Deputy you hardly have to open the shop vac.

I intend to cobble a Dust Deputy onto a 55 gal drum lid (the kind with the compression ring seal) and use a shop vac to suck feed from a container and place it into the drum. When full you move the lid with the Dust Deputy to the next drum. With this rig (Dust Deputy and shop vac) powered by a generator, I will be able to fill drums without having to do it by hand one 5 gal bucket at a time. As air leaks around the lid to drum seal will lower performance I plan to make a large rubber band out of a bicycle tube and place that over the area of interest. the vacuum should pull the rubber in and seal any leaks. Failing that I could expend 3 1/2 feet of duct tape per drum and git 'er done.

Oh, I'm not familiar with Pheumatic devices. Are they similar to pneumatic ones? [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Ke-chew! I CAN NOT believe I did that! [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Yes, a paper mill is a great tour. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time and went through Weyerhauser Forest Products in Eugene Oregon, dat was really sumpin'. I saw the log come up outa the mill pond and go completely through the mill. They shift the wood to various lines depending on what the log looks like and what the priorities are for the day. Saw them make continuous two-by-fours out of rems glued together. We each got a free Presto Log to carry along but the prestos get hotter and hotter as the heat of compression makes it's way to the outside. Of course the guide knew about that and was playing a trick on us. We saw pendulum saws, gang saws, flying cut-offs, you name it. One entire floor of the mill is devoted to sharpening blades. They have 1200 workers at the mill and another 800 in the woods, either cutting the trees down or planting new ones. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Animal ration design has become almost an Olympic Sport now and the feed mill control room has a bank of controls which go to variable speed motors, which auger the ingredients to make up the custom mix as directed by the feeds expert at each farm. The mill has a loose leaf binder with each farm's formula in it. Also, the rations change each week due to growth and also due to other changes like temperature, so you don't see big feed bins at the farms any more, and compartmentization on the feed delivery truck is paramount. I am just old enough to remember the advent of bulk feed delivery, and the growing pains as the various companies searched for the ideal unloading system. What you see now is highly evolved. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Bird]

I don't know, Pat, but it sounds to me as if your feed transferring plans might be a Rube Goldberg design that will be a lot more work than just using a shovel and buckets. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Bird, Maybe that depends on who is using the shovel! ; [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]


Actually we didn't use shovels but scooped it up with a 2 gal bucket into 5 gal buckets to dump into drums. We worked at it off and on for several days.

Since I will have the dust collection system anyway AND it will have a "spur" duct near where I could park the dump trailer filled with feed, then it isn't much engineering, Rube Goldberg or otherwise, to stick a flex hose into the load and fill drums with the system.

The cyclone and the "target drum to be filled will be in the center bay of my garage (30 ft ceiling and 14 ft high roll up door) where I can easily get to the drums with my tractor to use the FEL to load filled drums onto the util trailer (12,000 lb rated) to haul the drums to the barn. Seems to be a better thing than scooping with a bucket or shoveling from a dump trailer into drums (difficult and messy.) You can't get into the trailer to work till it is at least 1/3 to 1/2 empty as you can't stand on top of the feed. You sink in it like quicksand.

I expect to tilt the dump trailer up as needed to keep the feed deep enough to supply the vacuum hose near the tailgate and to only have to work from one location (at rear of trailer) to get all the feed. It takes over 20 drums to hold the load. This is several trailer loads of drums.

I'm not that fond of shoveling and shoveling from the dump trailer to drums is not easy as you would have to stand on a stool to get tall enough to shovel,not to mentioin the spillage you would likely incur.

If you were referring to the Dust Deputy then let me explain that situation. My friend, with whom I buy feed in common, has a used oil tank for storage. When I don't get feed in my dump trailer I get it from his tank. The dispensing chutes he installed are positioned to fill 5 gal buckets sitting on the ground. You fill one bucket at a time, lift the bucket up high enough to pour it into a drum in the bed of a truck. This is a pretty good lift and terrific exercise when doing 6 drums. Since I have other (standard) uses for the dust deputy in shop vacuuming chores I would have it anyway. The "extra" would be loading a generator and shop vac and then probably taking a trailer to haul drums since the genny and shop vac would reduce drum carrying capacity of the short bed truck.

Pat

[Bird]

For some reason, I just have not been able to picture this operation. You're going to go get the feed in a dump trailer? But you're going to put it in the garage instead of a barn, then transfer the feed to 55 gallon drums? Then transfer the drums to a barn? How many drums do you have?

[Pat]

Bird, It isn't all that complicated. When we take a delivery by 18 wheeler (28 tons) the truck uses its auger to fill my friends oil tank converted to feed silo. The delivery truck also fills my dump trailer. I buy more than will fit in the dump trailer so I have to get the rest via 5 gal buckets from his chutes mounted at 5 gal bucket height and this is a real workout.

I have already explained how we empty the dump trailer currently and how I propose to improve that with my dust collection system.

I have described how the Dust Deputy could make getting feed from his low mounted chutes easier. Just put the vacuum cleaner hose in a bucket and modulate the chute to keep feed in the bucket and not overflow while the vac sucks the feed into the drum in the pickup bed or on the trailer.

I have no plans of growing to a size where I would want to take an 18 wheeler delivery all for myself. Buying full loads and having them delivered saves $ over feedstore drum at a time or bag at a time prices. Even pallet loads of bags of range cubes can't compete with bulk corn gluten/soy hull pellets for nutrition per $.

I have over 20 drums with removable lids that have the locking rings to secure the drum against rodent intrusion. Drums are about the cheapest storage option that is secure, just not always the most convenient. Drums to make the storage structure are even cheaper than ones with the removable lids with latching rings. The ones with fixed lids with bungs in the lids are easy to cut out with an air chisel and even easier since I got a plasma cutter.

The dump trailer has never and probably never will be inside the garage. I have a circular drive around the house/shop/garage. I could park the dump trailer next to the shop where there is handy access to a duct running to the dust collector which is in the garage.

Easy access to the garage is available and essential to this plan since the drums to be filled have to sit under the cyclone apparatus. I intend to install the cyclone at a height to accommodate full sized drums sitting on a drum dolly. Just wheel in a drum and attach the special lid with flex hose connection and fire up the blower. Vacuum up feed until the drum is filled and shut the blower off. Remove the lid from the drum and roll it out to the apron, lift it with FEL to the trailer. Roll in an empty drum and repeat. When a trailer load of drums is filled, drive it to the barn and use the tractor to unload the drums into the barn. If it is not convenient to have someone drive the tractor separately to the barn and use a truck to pull the trailer then I could pull the trailer with the tractor. I think I can do this by myself with out help. There is a remote control option for turning the cyclone on and off with a remote control wand if that is needed.

If for any reason I have misjudged the feed handling using the dust collector then no harm no foul. I an not buying or installing anything extra or special for feed handling just using the equipment for an additional duty as assigned. I think it will make the job a lot easier. If it doesn't I don't have to continue it.

I have considered an overhead storage bin, maybe DIY but that isn't a pressing issue so long as I can handle the drums as storage containers.

Thought I might stack some drums on end with lids and bottoms removed to make a sort of silo. A natural configuration suggests itself, six drums in a circle around a central seventh drum. Bottom layer of 7 will have bases intact but lids removed. intermediate drums stacked on these would have both ends removed. The last drums on top would have lids only. The bottom drum of the central column of drums would have an angled diverter partition in it and a connection to one of the outer ring of drums so the central column would be able to drain its contents.

This would give an OD of about 6 ft and should be stable up to 3 or 4 drums tall. If I were to need to go higher I would have to consider a way to stabilize the structure. There are various ways. One would be to add a layer of half height drums at the bottom filled with rocks and metal debris and maybe a little concrete to "glue" everything together. If I were to put it outside I could auger some piers to make a raised base to get the drums off the ground as well as prevent their blowing over in our Oklahoma winds which I'm sure you recall.

Pat