living like a king on a low budget

[jerryrigin]

Hey all, I just wanted to say it is awsome to be living out in the boondocks. I grew up in the city. I am a SINGLE 32 yr. old male and just finished building my own home. I mean building it with my own two hands. It is not a shack but not a mantion either. Just a cozy 1200 sqft. I am all electric and now that I have accomplished this goal my next goal is to become totally Off Grid. My electric bill only runs about 30 dollars a month but it would be nice to say that I am self sufficent and rely on no outside sources. That would be awsome! I have a question though I have well water and have always lived in the city on the city water. I installed a electric tankless hot water heater in my new home and it works great. My water lines are PVC and they tend to get clogged up with what I think is shell or some sort of mineral deposits and this tends to stop the flow of hot water through my tankless heater. It does not happen to the cold water side. I installed a Filter in my well house before the water comes into my home but still it gets clogged up and then I have to drain all the water from my lines and use a blow gun attached to my air compressor and blow the lines out from different faucets around the house to get them unclogged. Well now my question has anyone came across a problem like this and if so can it be fixed and how? thank you. Oh by the way, I Did say I am SINGLE and looking for a good country gal.

[roho627]

Lets see pics of it a <font color="blue"> </font color> ll House &amp; clogs tooooo!

[egon]

Top of the Mornin to you. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Easiest way to fix those deposits after the electric water heater is to go off grid right away. Then you can do away with the heater.

Another option is to take cold showers. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [there could be merit in this statement] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Or you could have your water analyzed and then add a softener. That may just do the trick. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Other people add magnets to the water line to alleviate this problem. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[rbhollabaugh]

If you are using a filter cartridge, get a 1 micron filter. I get mine at Grainger.com. It's worth a try befroe you put in something more expensive.

[Nat]

Jerry, I think the problem is Calcium. unlike a lot of other stuff that desolves in warm water Calcium becomes unsuspended in hot water and deposits in lines and water heaters. I'm not sure how to eliminate the problem, but bet that I'm diagnosing it correctly. Not much help though is it. later, Nat

[nbarker]

Hi Jerry,
I am new to country life too. We are moving from an inner ring suburb of Buffalo to a rural town about 30 miles south of the city. We will also be on well water (although we may tap into the town water line that runs through the property), septic, propane (although also contemplating natural gas), etc. How many acres are you on? I don't know anything about your water problem, but the other posters seem to have some good ideas. I"m interested in hearing about how you plan on being off the grid. I was reading about wind turbines. There seems to be some good tax rebates out there to install one . However, they are still kind of pricey.
What kind of climate do pecans require? I would like to plant some fruit trees on my acreage.
As for finding a good country lady, I'm sure you won't have any problems. I am married to a very handy, intelligent man and most of my friends are looking for someone similar. I can't really help you out though, since I live about 1000 miles from you!

[Pat]

Like the other poster said, Jerry, you have dissolved minerals (probably mostly calcium.) Because they are dissolved there is no simple mechanical filter that will help you. A softener will exchange sodium for the calcium so the water will work better with soap for various washing tasks but you may not want to drink the extra sodium so you may not want to plumb a softener to all the cold water lines.

Magnets mostly DO NOT WORK (Warning, snake oil!)

The "instant" water heaters save standby losses but take tremendous power to operate when actually turned on. You save energy in the long run but require large bursts of it to run the electric "on-demand" heater. Off-grid electrical generating systems for households are not generally compatible with those heaters as they can't meet the peak demand.

It is extremely expensive to install enough generating capacity with wind, solar, or hydro to meet huge peak loads without resorting to banks of storage batteries and enormous/expensive inverters.

I'm not knocking going off grid but... in several years of keeping abreast of the state of the practice, I have never seen a solar installation that showed better economics than a grid hookup if readily available. When faced with installing many thousands of dollars worth of power lines and poles to get to a remote property, an alternative energy solution may be the better deal but that is one of the rare exceptions.

If seeing your meter run backwards is worth it to you do a grid intertie system, especially if you qualify for "net metering." When your peak consumption out paces your alternative energy generation capacity you draw from the grid and the meter runs up but when you are not using much energy the meter can run backwards. You only pay for your net consumption. There are no expensive banks of batteries needed, no big honkin' expensive inverters, and much less maint. You can use your electric instant heat water heater on this system.

If you have the discipline to eliminate most of your electrical consumption you could end up with little or no electrical bill with the grid intertied net metering system and not have the hassle of inverters and batteries.

Batteries are not good energy savings accounts. They do not pay interest! In fact, they charge you interest for storing your energy. You always put in significantly more energy than you get back out of batteries. This means larger more expensive banks of batteries and more solar, wind, or hydro power has to be put in to get what you need back out. This is why I suggested the net metering system where you can borrow energy from the grid and pay no interest if you just repay the energy loan before the end of the billing cycle. You will only pay for your average net consumption that is above your own generation capacity. Not much incentive to go too big with your net metering system as most contracts do not allow you to have a negative balance at the end of the billing cycle. That is, you can reduce your bill to zero but any extra energy produced beyond your own consumption goes to the utility for free. This is not so bad since they will loan you energy with no interest. You can use electricity from them at night when the sun doesn't shine and pay it back the next day (assuming solar power.)

Pat

[bobkrack]

Howdy Pat,
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

I'm not knocking going off grid but... in several years of keeping abreast of the state of the practice, I have never seen a solar installation that showed better economics than a grid hookup if readily available. When faced with installing many thousands of dollars worth of power lines and poles to get to a remote property, an alternative energy solution may be the better deal but that is one of the rare exceptions.

If seeing your meter run backwards is worth it to you do a grid intertie system, especially if you qualify for "net metering." When your peak consumption out paces your alternative energy generation capacity you draw from the grid and the meter runs up but when you are not using much energy the meter can run backwards. You only pay for your net consumption. There are no expensive banks of batteries needed, no big honkin' expensive inverters, and much less maint.

[/ QUOTE ]

A much more viable solution - at least here in California where the electric rates are "tiered" - is to add a small amount of solar resource, hopefully just enough to keep you out of the higher priced tiers.

One example might be - solar panels for some daytime generation along with a "time of usage" agreement with the utility. Cheap night-time power, solar assist during the higher rate daytime (12 noon to 6 pm, for example).

Lots of thought needed to form a long term strategy.

Bob

[Pat]

________________________________________________
"Lots of thought needed to form a long term strategy.

Bob

I was tought to respect my elders but it's getting harder to find any! "
__________________________________________________ _

The latter comment is why you communicated with me?

Bob, good strategy. Using solar against the highest cost tier of grid power gives it a chance to be more competitive.

Load shedding during hours of peak consumption is sometimes rewarded by the utility. Some utilities separate the loads at the user's panel and put the non-essential loads on breakers that can be controlled by over the wire signals from the utility. Then at peak load times the utility shuts off the user's non-essential loads. There is usually little disruption to a family if they don't run the dishwasher or laundry during peak load hours and the DHW tank doesn't come on. Some houses have been set up with twin A/C systems where one system can often handle the job but two may need to run during the worst conditions. During peak load times the utility sends a signal and your A/C units can take turns running but not both at the same time. If the house were cooled well prior to the peak load period then it is likely the one system will get you by good enough till the peak period passes. Energy management is part and parcel with energy conservation.

Of course if you live where the RH is relatively low during hot weather then overnight whole house fan use and evaporative cooler during the day is way more economical than a compressor based air conditioner.

More and better insulation is a good thing until you reach the point of diminishing returns. At some point additional insulation just doesn't do much for you. When heat wicking through the studs and windows comprises the majority of heat transfer through a wall, additioinal insulation is not cost effective.

Insulated window covers or insulated drapes can be a very cost effective energy conservative measure. The best triple paned low E gas filled low infiltration windows pass more heat than a typical uninsulated wall. We sure like our window and views but they are expensive energy leaks that might as well be covered over when it is dark outside or when you are not home if the temperature differential inside to out is more than a few degrees or you will experience unwanted solar gain. In some climate zones, running a whole house fan for a while before turning on the A/C will pay decent dividends.

Sorry to go on and on but I once was the energy conservation officer at SuBase San Diego and I get carried away with the topic.

Pat

[bobkrack]

"Lots of thought needed to form a long term strategy."
Bob_______________________________________________ _
The latter comment is why you communicated with me?

Not at all, Pat. Your expertise and knowledge brings lots of ammunition to the war on energy and many other subjects!

I can only say the lazy man must just lower his usage, the smart man must take every advantage of the price structure, the practical man must do what his budget says - the effective man must prioritize and use all of the above.

Bob