Propane generators

[Pat]

Dave, Gary is my idol regarding (at least) the genset. I recently purchased a Generac 17,500 Watt continuous (23000 surge) air cooled gasoline powered generator. It was the same price with or without the manual transfer switch so I got the "System" version with transfer switch, outside plug enclosure etc.

BUT... I won't be using the manual transfer switch. No, I won't be converting the unit to propane (kits available) as I will soon be buying a propane fired fully automatic system with automatic transfer switch. I don't expect my wife to suddenly become electromechanically inclined during a power outage or want to go out in the elements to start a generator AND maybe we won't be home when the outage happens! So, I will soon be going to put in a system similar to the one Gary has.

They exercise (depending on brand/model) 12-20 min a week or so. I have 2 (count 'em TWO) 1000 gal propane tanks so will be able to last a while off grid. I too would prefer an 1800 RPM liquid cooled propane fired unit but... that is just more $ than I want to spend. So, I will be getting a 3600 RPM propane fired and airi cooled automatic unit with automatic transfer switch.

Hey, Gary, how loud is your unit. I see these rated from about 72 dB to the mid 60's which is not very loud. Some have a "whisper" mode for the weekly exercise run where they run slower and quieter.


Oh, and my advise to the OP... Don't get a cheapo!!!!!!!!! There are inexpensive manual units by Honda and other good names. Some of these are dual or tri-fuel units and others have easy DIY kits for propane conversion. If you don't feel comfortable doing the propane conversion take it to a small engine shop. Propane is definitely the best choice for a residential back up generator. Diesel is NOT a good choice for short run stop and start use. Gasoline (and diesel) deteriorate and get contaminated during storage (even with a big dose of STABIL todays gas will only store safely for 6 months. Propane has no storage life problems and for practical purposes just keeps forever. Engines run cleaner and don't gum up. Best choice for intermittent use stand by generator.

Pat

[GaryM]

It's not too bad at all. In fact it sounds very nice about 40 seconds after the lights go out in a thunder storm! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I can hear it in the house, but it's more of a hum rather than sounding like a lawn mower or tractor. After I win the Missouri Lottery I plan to replace it with a 1800RPM liquid cooled unit. But as I never buy a ticket I'm just a little less likely to win than those who do buy a ticket. [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Well Gary, better late than never. My fully automatic propane powered 17kW standby generator with ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) is scheduled for delivery tomorrow between 1-3PM. It has been on order for a week. An ice storm with possible power outages is forecast for tomorrow through Wed.

Nothing like having a little personal cliff hanger. Will the delivery truck make it in spite of the weather? I guess it is unlikely that I will be able to get it installed and wired in time to handle THIS ICE STORM. Maybe if I had the ATS ahead of time but it is coming with the genny. Oh well. I can bring the welding trailer down to the house and use the 17.5KW gasoline generator this time if I have to.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] There's nothing like the hummmm of twenty-three Onan gen sets as evening in the desert draws nigh. The Airstream caravan is circled, the cheery lamps are lit. The beep of a microwaves punctuates the soft strains of the gen sets, and cheery laughter tells you that all is well in ........ Airstreamland. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[jml755]

Pat,
Just curious. How many circuits does the ATS you're installing on that 17kw unit have?

Reason for asking: I was at a party at a doctor's house last week and he was talking about installing a 20kw unit. He has a large house in an upscale area (including a heated swimming pool in the basement). I thought 20kw was overkill, but he said he has over 60 circuits in the house.

[Pat]

Well, just off the top of my head with only about 80% confidence I think it is 16 circuits.

The generator was delivered this afternoon during an ice storm. The driver used my circular drive and very nearly was stranded. There is a 12-14 ft elevation change in the drive. The drive dips down below the level of the basement floor (walk-out basement) and then is just below the level of the main floor when it goes in front of the house. The old Corn Binder without posi pulling a 53 ft trailer with lift gate that nearly scrapped the ground made about 8 attempts to climb out of the back yard before succeeding. The driver walked the drive before attempting it in the first place but the gravel had more ice on it that he realized.

I spent the morning cutting up RR ties and assembling a pad. I had intended to pour concrete BUT the suggested install is NOT on concrete. Pea gravel is recommended. One of the professional installation outfits uses 6x6 PT to mount it so I figure creosoted approx 6"x8" RR ties will do the deed. I put down fiber cement board scraps to keep grass from growing under the unit. I will fill the rectangular RR tie frame with gravel. It may be a few days before I can get it installed as I want a plumber to help with the gas install and we have an ice storm happening all day today and continuing as I write and it is forecast to last a few days. It is 50-60 mile RT to a big box store for materials and although I could I will not make that trip on glaze ice.

It was a two coat day for me the first Carhart Chore coat soaked through (needs a water repellent spray job done on it) and the second was on its way when I quit.

I have to check specs on gas flow and may need a different or additional regulator. I am using a two stage setup so the first stage is mounted at the location of my 2 each 1000 gal propane tanks and there are a couple 2nd stage regulators at the house. This reduces line loss from the tank and lets you use smaller line for a long run. I may need to add another 2nd stage and hope I don't have to change out the first stage (if it won't handle the flow.)

Here is a link to pix of professional genset
installations --> http://www.homepowersystems.net/store.asp?pid=3595

Pat

[jml755]

"...I have to check specs on gas flow and may need a different or additional regulator. I am using a two stage setup so the first stage is mounted at the location of my 2 each 1000 gal propane tanks..."

Pat,
I'm surprised at you. I would have expected you to have the gas flow engineering calculated down to the molecule/sec (including temp compensation) BEFORE YOU GOT THE GENERATOR. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously, with that size generator you probably won't even notice the next ice storm that knocks out power. Sounds like you could go close to a month with full tanks. Of course, with the price of fuel, that would not be pleasant on the pocketbook.

Also, did you plan ahead when wiring your house/shop for an ATS to scatter the 16 or so circuits for whole house coverage?

I was surprised when I put in my 6 circuit ATS that I could get lights/outlets in just about every room in the house by the way they setup the circuits when the house was built. (I should have gone with a 10 circuit and I could have gotten some "nice to have" circuits as well.)

Maybe post a picture of your setup when it's done?

[Pat]

The house is not specifically prewired for a generator but I don't think the retrofit will be too difficult (no job is hard for the guy who hasn't done it yet.) There is a PVC conduit chase through the brick wall near the genset location to bring the power cable inside. The main gas line from the first stage regulator to a second stage regulator is conveniently nearby. My two each 200 amp breaker boxes are side by side in a stud wall of my wood shop and there is available space for the ATS next to them.

Hopefully it will not be a nightmare to get wired up. The plumbing will be pretty easy. The ground is all white right now with sleet and freezing drizzle so I will wait a few days before using the pallet forks to place the genset on the RR tie mount.

I should be able to get some pix of the work in progress and finished installation as it unfolds.

The delivery truck was the most excitement I had yesterday, watching the driver try to back out of the low part of my driveway failing, then running forward and not quite making the hill and then lather rinse repeat. I think it was about 7 tries before he went at it with enough gusto to make it. Gravel didn't look that slippery but was.

Pat

[jml755]

Don't think the ATS wiring will be bad. It took me all of 15 minutes to wire in a 6 circuit unit. Pretty simple. Biggest job was drilling a hole through the wall and mounting the box. that took about a half-hour.

Geez, how much ice was on the gravel? 7 tries! I would have thought that the spinning wheels would have kicked up the gravel and helped break up the ice so he would get traction. We sure don't get those kind of ice storms up here in Michigan.

[Pat]

The spinning wheels kicked up very little gravel as the ice coating reduced traction and the gravel was not dislodged much.

Reminded me of what a good friend in California says, "All's well that ends!" Good or bad getting it over is a good thing.

It was about 11F this morning so I am not too enthused to get out early and fuss with the gen site prep and besides my wheel barrow tire is flat (another job for Slime) and I was going to use it to move some gravel to infill the RR tie rectangle. I may just wait for a thaw. Tomorrow is forecast to get to 44 and Sat up to 53 so I may just wait a bit. If we lose power due to current ice load on transmission lines I will drag my new welding trailer down to the house and use the 17.5 kW gasoline powered generator as needed.

Pat