Killing Livestock

[jimbrown]

Well pat I knew this was livestock related. Rumor is that the two dead guys also threatened to kill one of the shooters cows to get even for the dog.
Plus a bunch of other unsubstantiated rumors.

It appears both dead guys were tenants of the shooter and at least one was in the process of being evicted for non payment of rent.

The most damaging rumor and might explain why he is in jail is that both dead guys were shot in the back.

Reference Glock I guess a G39 by your comment.

I like Glocks. I never thought I would say that I am kinda a 1911 guy myself. But, the wife wanted a new pistol and went down to the gun shop and spent at least an hour with the sales guy and picked herself a nice Glock 19. Of course I had to run a few rounds thru it to deem it safe and functional. Really nice. I always was adamant that a double action revolver was the best hand gun for non gun people but now think that maybe a Glock is just as good or better.

I really want a nice AR before Obama and crew get started but really have no need for it. But may buy one just because. Been looking at a Rock River Mid sized M4 type.

[Pat]

Well, I can see how in the heat of the moment one of the two could have been hit in the back but both??? If they had been front shot I'd be 100% on the side of the shooter. All the rest...renters, threats, whatever... is just distractions. If for whatever reason two guys come at you with clubs shooting them is not only justified but should be encouraged. However the shooter needs to shoot them before frightening them away and they turn to flee.

My philosophy is that once another person)s) convinces me that they are going to try to harm me (or my loved ones) now (or maybe ambush me/them later) that they have in fact started q deadly fight and it is my duty to cancel their ticket as expeditiously as possible right then with no delay by whatever means I have at hand. What reason could there be to warrant doing nothing and letting them pick the time and place of their choosing to your disadvantage. This places a great burden of responsibility on me to weigh carefully someones intentions and not take action lightly. I do not frequent bars or other places where there is a reasonable expectation of a confrontation. I actively try to avoid opportunities for physical confrontation to avoid being put in the position of having to take drastic action.

My wife's concealed carry is a Lady Smith in .357 magnum. Lightweight Scandium model. It is a 5 shot double action hammerless revolver. I call it a coma gun, it can be operated by someone essentially in a coma. No safety, no cocking no nothing except point and click (point and BANG.)

I have a Colt Gold Cup National Match 1911 in my night stand. My carry is the baby Glock in .45ACP (Model 26.)

The baby Glock is the BEST .45 ACP for concealed carry that I have tried. It is very safe due to design features but extremely easy to use, again, it is a point it and pull the trigger sort of thing with no external safety, hammer, or anything not really needed.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] My wife bought me two nice gifts in 1996; a Smith & Wesson Model 640 5-shot (hammerless) in .357, and a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Smith is my idea of the perfect carry gun, and I just sidelined the Jeep with 226,000 miles on it. I have YET to lay a wrench on it except for a replacement water pump last July. We just today brought home a Jeep EXACTLY like my '97 Grand except one year newer and with 146,000 fewer miles on it. A week on Auto trader.com was all it took; that, and a trip to Kansas City. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] I'm going to do a few things to my older Jeep and then the kids are going to take it and drive out whatever is left in it. Those 4.0 six-cylinder engines are hard to beat. Seven quarts of oil and seven main bearings does help. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Dave. I can't quibble about your gun being a good'n but I was surprised you favor a coma gun like the one my wife has. I thought of you as a 1911 kinda guy. If a 5 shot .357 (with proper combat loads) won't get it done then the odds are a high capacity auto wouldn't either in the vast majority of realistic scenarios.

If I ignore magazine spring compression issues I can have 5 in the mag and one in the pipe with my baby Glock in .45 ACP but really if 5 cannon balls out of a .45 ACP doesn't do it things are really strange.

I thought the Tarus Judge in long Colt 45 and .410 shotgun was interesting till I saw one. Too big...too heavy for reasonable concealed carry, especially the one with larger chamber to accept 3 inch .410 or the 6 inch barrel version. If the concealed carry rules were changed to be "Covered Carry", i.e. gun is not directly visible but may be easily detected by the casual observer then I'd get one.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] My wife carries a .38 SPL five-shot Rossi wheel gun; not a bad pistol really. She never liked shooting it very much, until I spent some time cleaning and smoothing some of the rough edges; like on the trigger and guard, and especially the hammer. One of our buddies out in CA is a .45 ACP fan and when I told him I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a .45, he said: "Come to the range on Saturday. " Not only did he teach me how to shoot a pistol, but he also introduced me to a gas ported .45 AUTO that I found I could actually HIT something with. That gas port extension was really the key to it. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Pat]

I used to hear a lot of talk among my ham radio buddies about their experiences at the range and the difficulty of doing well with a Colt 1911. I gave it as much credence as all the talk earlier about the .44 mag and its impossible recoil. My wife at 120 lbs and 5'7" with wrists that I can easily reach around with my thumb and little finger could one handed my Super Blackhawk with 240 grain jacketed hollowpoints that I hand loaded to 1500 FPS+. No problem.

So, I bought a Colt 1911 Gold Cup National Match and proceeded to find that it shoots where you point it quite easily. Not a problem accuracy wise unless you are very very demanding and then you need a different gunner than I. Now my concealed carry baby Glock in .45ACP is another matter for me. I can do OK center of mass at 15 feet but my groups on paper off hand are NOT a point of pride. Luckily I didn't intend it to win any super accuracy contests, just reliably hit center of mass out to 25 feet or so which I can do fine. When it comes to boasting about accuracy I have to show off targets punched with one of my target .22's or a scoped rifle. Maybe I will have to try to find an "adviser" to show me the way toward baby Glock accuracy.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] The big difference was him showing me how to use my Smith in a fluid shooting motion, bottom-to-top. Once I figured that out, the Smith AND the .45 ACP were a lot more manageable and accuracy greatly improved. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I shot a Blackhawk in .44 MAG about fifteen years ago. I made the mistake of not having ear muffs....YOW! Accuracy wasn't a problem with the Blackhawk; much to my surprise. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] OF course you have heard of the guy who shot himself while getting into a chopper in Alaska. His BH slid out of his Wyatt Earp holster as he swung his leg up, and the gun fell and hit the concrete, right on the hammer. The slug took his knee out from the bottom up through the patella and decorated the interior of the helo. I think THAT was what caused the factory recall for the transfer-bar trigger re-do. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Pat]

NEVER carry the SBH cannon with the hammer resting on a loaded chamber!!! The box my SPH came in was labeled 7 1/2 inch barrel but I could not figure out where to measure it to get 7 1/2 inches. I had a devil of a time finding a holster I liked but eventually did.

I was still curious re the measureing problem and called Ruger. Well it seems when faced with a customer with my particular problem and after hearing the serial number they "FESSED UP" what the real deal was.

It seems a NEW GUY grabbed a box of .41 Mag barrel blanks and started them through .44 mag (SBH) assembly. They made it all the way through, were shipped and sold. It sorts of leaves you with a dilemma as it makes you wonder about either quality control or ethics. One or the other had to have been faulty! Either they didn't know the difference, didn't care, both, or something. Once we established that my 7 1/2 inch barrel SBH was a tad short they offered to install the correct barrel for free. I chose to just let it ride since I was getting used to it AND finally found a holster I liked which would not have fit well with the ACTUAL CORRECT BARREL LENGTH.

I had a jugheaded horse get a little feisty as I mounted up and we both ended up horizontal on the ground with my left leg under the horse. No damage to me but the left stirrup was trashed and my SBH fell out on the ground and sustained a minor scratch on the cylinder. Justice would have been if it sustained an accidental discharge and blown the fool horses head off.

Uh... isn't the BH .357 mag and the SBH .44 mag. I first bought t6he BH and didn't like the warmed up .38's report so I sold it to a college buddy who really liked it and bought the SBH.

Pat

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I'm not exactly lined-out on the "super" vs "regular" Blackhawk; I thought all those BH hand cannons were the .44 Mag; didn't know that they even made a .357, but then I'm not a Ruger guy. Is this right, Pat? Your SBH has a transfer-bar hammer setup? Or some such device to prevent accidental discharge? [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Dave,Ruger introduced the .357 magnum Blackhawk in 1955 and the Superblackhawk came later, evolving some before I got mine in 1966, mostly because a cowboy friend of mine from Wyoming (we were USAF) had one and liked his. I never did really "bond" with it which is why when one of my gun knowledgeable college buddies (after discharge and in college again) seemed to really admire mine so I sold it to him and got a SBH (.44 Mag) which I did like and had lots of fun with handloading and packing it on my hip in certain hiking areas. This was 1968-early 70's.

http://www.notpurfect.com/main/blackhawk.html is everything you might want to know about a Super Blackhawk (and probably more.) In 1973 Ruger added the safety feature so you could safely carry 6 loaded cylinders. Mine is pre-transfer bar and NOT upgraded. Like in the old days with "6 shooters" the smart guys do not routinely carry it with six but instead carry it with the hammer resting on an empty cylinder. Target shooting and such, OK load 6, in the nightstand load 6 but for routine carry...5!

The father of the college buddy who bought my .357 was in armor piercing ammo development for WW II and my buddy bought some armor piercing .357 rounds (over the counter no problem back then.) We went out to shoot some penetration tests (budding young scientists, he a chemist and I a physicist.) He worked his way up in steel thicknesses to the point his armor piercing rounds put good dents with cracks in them but did not penetrate the metal plate. At that point I drew my SBH loaded with my handloads (240 grain jacketed hollow points and some heavier semi-jacketed soft nose pumped up to about 1500FPS and proceeded to blow holes clean through that steel plate and several thicknesses heavier on which his armor piercing were totally ineffective.

At the time I thought the .44Mag was about right for hunting buses and trucks. Since then the .454 Cassul, and some .50 cal handguns are way beyond a .44mag.

I mentiioned that my wife could single hand the SBH with my handloads, yeah a couple rounds fairly comfortably. I was good for about 10 in rapid fire mode and then the punishment was such that my hand would shake uncontrollably and accuracy went to pot.

Pat