HVAC for new house

[hazmat]

Wingnut:

a standard ton of refridgeration = 288,000 btu/day = 200 Btu/min= 3.5168 kW = heat of fusion of 1 ton (907.19kg) of ice at 32 F (0 C). From the days when food was refridgerated with ice. Needed a conversion that the customer could understand, ie he used 3 tons of ice per day to keep the steak cold, so his mechanical refridgerator needs to supply the same amount of "cold".

Pat, I found this in my Marks Mechanical Engineering handbook. They've got a very detailed chapter on HVAC including chilled water etc. they even get into how much heat different restaruant equipment gives off. FYI a fryolater w/ 28 pounds of fat gives off 12,000 Btu/hour. A waffle iron for ice cream sandwich 5,200 Btu/hour. they also get into windows with different treatments, ie heavy curtains vs. venetian blinds etc.

From your posts it sounds like you've already seen equivalent info. Maybe this will help others out. -- Get it at your local library if possible, the book is >$100.

[dmccarty]

wingnut,

One ton of refridgerant = 12,000 BTu/Hour.

Off to find a reference to a book that might interest Patrick and then I have some other questions. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Later,
Dan

[wingnut]

thanks Hazmat (and Dan) .... I knew there would actually be some reason behind it.

Now, how many people do you think know how much cooling a ton of ice supplies at 32 degrees. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

pete

[dmccarty]

Patrick,

FINALLY I got a chance to find the information I wanted to
pass on to you. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...008184-2375245

Here are some more links to his website.
http://www.buildingscience.com/resou...ks/default.htm

The author's name is Joseph Lstiburek. He is a PhD PE who
has written quite a bit on building science. The link shows
some of his work which is highly regarded by the architects,
inspectors, and builders who where teaching a class I took
last year on solar house design. I happened to buy his book
that is for my paritcular climate a few years ago by dumb luck.

Anyway, the books concern how to design and build in
different environments. As I was digging up the links I think
I found a book I need to go buy... [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

You might be too far along in your house construction to
implement his ideas but its worth a shot. The main thing that
hit me from his book that I have is to stop air infilitration and
insulate the slab. I building a slab foundation. But he also
has interesting ideas, and I have seen them debated on some
building sites, about attic and crawl spaces. Might be worth
it to get a book or two and see if it can help your house
building project.

On these European houses with the cooling in the wall systems
do you know how they control condensation? I suppose there
is if the temp in the system was kept within a certain range
against the house one could aviod condensation?

Later,
Dan

[Pat]

Dan, Thanks so much for the trouble you went to on my behalf. The link to Amazon took me to Harry Potter but that's OK, I searched on the author's name and found all the books. Last year I bought the one that covers building in my climate zone (Mixed Humid). I too was impressed with the author. I loaned it out to my builder back before Christmas as sort of a sub rosa evangelism.

I thought I had mentioned that the radiative cooling, ala the capilary tubes, required supplemental dehumidification. A small A/C unit with low velocity air handler. The radiative cooling mesh uses water in the low 60's F. There are other radiative cooling schemes in current commercial use in the US. In one, they run the chilled water through tubes at ceiling height with troughs under them to catch and discard condensate. Take for example a class room or autitorium. Lots of latent heat. Moist warm air rises to ceiling where it is chilled and dehumidified silently. Aitr handlers are engineered for IAQ requirrements NOT cooling and dehumidification so the volume and velocity requirements are way down. A variation of this is where you have simultaneous heating and cooling requirements such as a bld with cold areas needing heat say on the north side and overheated spaces on the sunny side. Heat pumps can pump the heat from the warm side (while dehumidifying) and release the heat on the cold side. When heat quantities are mismatched, the excess capacity is discarded after taking any excess heat for DHW, snow melt, etc.

Since I personally have what seems to be a year round low volume but steady supply of 62F water at 6-8 ft below the surface, I am considering burrying some PEX to collect that heat and put some pex in my porch steps to accept the heat. For the cost of a trench, some PEX and fittings, and a tiny pump I can have a hydronic snow removal system. I confess I haven't "run the numbers" yet but at first glance it looks promising. Since the water is flowing slowly down slope I will always be mining heat from new water so I should never run out of 62 degree water.

If you are serious about concrete construction in general and ICF in particular you might want to subscribe to, "Concrete Homes." Subscriptions:Sarah Nunnelee 512-250-9023 ext. 3444
On web at www.concretehomesmagazine.com

As much advertising as articles and most articles are "puff" pieces for advertisers BUT it is much of the info and contacts you need/want for concrete homebuilding. A real good source is the PCA (Portland Cement Association), very professional. Lots of good publications covering topics from concrete counter tops to pre/post tensioned concrete tilt up construction and on and on. Get their brochure on their current pubs. GOOD STUFF. And don't forget the CSDA (Concrete Sawing and Driling Asociation) 31st annualconvention Mar 25-29 in Maui Hawaii.

If you are feeling charitable or looking for an opportunity to learn by doing, you can participate in a Habitat for Humanity project. Many folks say they learned a lot and did it both for altruistic reasons and to learn some specific skills to use on their own projects. Take a look at Team Concrete www.teamconcrete.org a PCA community relations program.

Again, thanks for your good intentions, who would guess we would both converge on the same autor/book.

Patrick

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat, I have enjoyed reading this evolving post as I am a "student" of HVAC m'self. I began my married life in FRESNO CA where if your HVAC takes a dump in a particularly hot week you'll be 85th on the list for service. I do my own HVAC work entirely, and have since 1969. But...enough about that [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] , what I wanted was to add my commentary about cooling/heating. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't OK LA HOMA humid as all get out? Won't you be needin' to strain a LOT of water out of that air? [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] A thermal pack is fine for Indio, Fresno, or Palm springs, but it won't save you in a humid environment......the temp is simply not low enough at the coil to get good condensation. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] What I would THINK you'd want to do is use refrigeration with a weenie condensor instead of air-to-air. By using your cold source to cool the water jacket condensor, you can do the work with less HP, and have the crispy cool house interior that you really want. What I do here in SE Iowa is UNDER-GAS my unit and set it so it JUST MAKES WATER on the coils. That drops the input AMPs and allows the unit to run more hours and make me comfy for the same money that..... on-off-on-off-on-ice up-off-on-off-on-ice up-off....well, you get the picture......would cost me. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]