Shop setup and tools.

[Pat]

I'm curious what y'all would list in priority order as THE list of power tools to have in a woodworking workshop. Not a commercial venture mind you but something that could turn out cabinets and such.

As a side issue, how big is big enough in band saws. I haven't seen anything in bandsaws at the home workshop level above 14 inch. Is that really big enough? I think I want a tilt table and good throat height. How important is tilt? How much throat height is enough?

When it comes to planers for the shop, not needed to be portable. How big is big enough in width,thickness, single pass cuting depth, horse power? What are the must have features that I'd regret not having?

I have always been attracted to the xx in one tools but in reality I chafe at having to spend so much time reconfiguring the tool. No matter what it would be configured to be I would invariably need it to be something else. I will prefer to just bite the bullet and get separates.

In nearly all cases, no matter what the rationale or immediate reasoning, I have regretted, almost universally, buying cheap tools. Maybe that should be low quality tools, which isn't always the same thing. I have a Harbor Freight floor standing drill press that works well for me. The other day I looked at their 12 inch compound slliding miter saw. The linear bearings felt really herky jerky vs the silky smooth big names. Hundreds of $ difference but I resisted the "BARGAIN".

I do some welding with a wire feed gun and a stick welder and have a chop saw, several 4 1/2 inch grinders (dif blades avail without changing, I call it efficiency not laziness) This work makes an entirely different sort of mess from wood butchering and I will be struglling to lay out the new shop to accomodate both operations in a compatible manner. Don't want grinding debris in the urethane finish of a piece of furnature.

Of course anyone with experience or ideas is welcome to advise or comment. I will get a large dust collector but that shouldn't get near the welding-grinding. On the topic of a dust collector... I'm thinking in the 1200 to 1500 cfm size and intend to install rigid tubing to plumb the suction lines around to various areas of the shop. This will impact the shop heat less if the heat is radiant so I'm leaning in that direction. Alternatively I could build an enclosure for it in the conditioned space and mount a large surface filtration system in one of its walls. This wold avoid "throwing away" expensive heat or A/C. To avoid recirculating dust, I'd have to be pretty serious about the filter in the enclosure's wall. Any experience out there?

Late breaking idea... Run two tubes to each major dust/chip producer, one exhaust and one makeup air (ambient from outside). Terminate the ambient air supply where it can supply air to make up for that exhausted. Put a "blast gate" (slide valve?) on each suction and makeup tube and only open them in matched pairs. The idea is to not exhaust conditioned air but to suck up untreated air with the debris. If neccessary, a little boost fan could make the ambient air more available.

When sucking 1500 cfm out of a conditioned space for very long, you make quite a negative impact on humidity in our climate in summer and waste a lot of heat in the winter. These performance hits vs the relative low cost of some thinwall plastic pipe to route ambient air seem like a bargain.

The shop will have 10 ft ceilings unless someone makes a case for taller ones. I can go 12 ft (full building wall height) easily. It is 35x23 ft finished open floor space(6 inch walls). This is 8050 cubic ft and at 1500 cfm I would get over 11 air changes/hour with the dust collection system running and no amelioration as mentioned above. Starts to look more like enclosing the dust collection bags and installing large area filters in the walls of the enclosure.

Well by now you know that I am open for sugestons on just about everything about layout and populalting the shop. Don't be bashfull.

Pat

[Stoneheartfarm]

Hey, I'll give it a shot!

1. Shop Vac [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
2. Table saw.
3. Drill Press
4. Sander
5. Miter Saw
6. Lathe
7. Planer
8. Jointer

Did I get it right?

Steve

[egon]

Pat:
In my arcane way I figure the first and foremost tool required is a dedication in the person working in the shop.

Everything else will just plain fall into place as required.

Egon

[AndyF]

For a woodshop, I'd start with a good workbench. While its not a power tool, its the tool where you will probably spend the most time. Next would be a tablesaw, jointer and dust collector. A planer would be next and then a bandsaw. For the bandsaw I'd spring a few extra bucks and go for an 18 or 20" saw, the difference between this size and a 14" is night and day. Following this, get a drill press. I'd finish off with a shaper with a power feed. Its amazing the difference in work time and quality between a shaper and a router table.

If you're not trying to make a living from woodworking, rather than a central dust collection system, consider getting a portable system which you can plug into the tool you are using. The centralized systems are $$$, have big motors and require more maintenance than a smaller portable system. I use a 3/4hp Delta cyclonic dust collector which can easily keep up with any of my tools and when the drum is filled with chips I just roll it out to the compost heap. With the portable system you also don't have to worry about make up air or losing your heated air to the outside.

If you're OK with taking some time in assembling the shop and aren't hung up on new, consider getting some used equipment. You'll be amazed at how many good quality tools you can find for 10 - 50% the price of new. I've been to a lot of estate sales and auctions where barely used tools were being sold.

12' ceilings are the way to go at least in the machine area. It'll make it a lot easier to handle long boards.

For your metalworking you may want to set up a separate room. I've recently graduated to two shops - one 14X24 for metalworking in my barn and the second 28X24 in the garage for woodworking. This works well for me because I don't get sawdust in the metalworking tools and don't have to worry about the dangers of hot work in a wood shop.

[jtd]

Since your primary interest is cabinets and such (I assume this means some furniture) you probably won't be resawing much. Then a 14 inch bandsaw should be fine. Larger bandsaws offer resaw capability besides working with thicker stock. Tilt is very handy for some furniture. Not necessary for cabinets. Throat depth is probably more important than excessive height. (Mine has a 20 inch throat and 10 inch height) Regarding planers, I have a 6x15 Grizzley and wouldn't go smaller. If you are only going to work with relative short sticks, thinner than 16/4 then the benchtop type should be OK. I prefer to buy rough stock and have planed 6" beams for some projects. I don't like combination machines generally. However, if my wife wanted to buy me a very nice gift I'd take a Felder combination sliding tablesaw and shaper. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I have a 2hp top/bottom bag Grizzley dust collector. When my shop is ready (under construction) I'm going to build a cyclone for it. This size works fine for several standing pieces of equipment. Get the best/tightest filter bag possible. I'll also hang 2 or 3 shop filters to reduce the dust in the new shop. Definitely use blase gates and a wireless control for the dust collector. 10 foot ceilings should be fine although I also built my new shop with 12 foot ceilings. It's designed to accomodate my tractor with pallet forks for moving lumber,etc. Your first projects should include a well designed cabinetmakers bench with side and tail vises (including bench dogs) plus an assembly table (mine table is 50x98") on heavy duty castors. Height should be about 24 to 30". Have fun and be safe.

[beenthere]

I think I read everything suggested but do not remember reading about lumber storage area. Lumber used for cabinets needs to be stored where it will either stay dry, or where it can be stickered to become dry (in a heated and humidity controlled environment). This lumber, if not dry and brought into your shop which is heated, will begin losing moisture and will change shape continually while you are working it up into cabinets. Very frustrating to saw and shape a piece of wood into a straight cabinet part only to have it change to something else by the next day. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Have fun. I couldn't have done what you are planning to do. I built my shop and added tools as the need arose, and as my interests and talents grew in woodworking. I do wish I had more room, but that is happening soon.

[DocHeb]

<font color="blue">I'm curious what y'all would list in priority order as THE list of power tools </font color>

My list went in this order:

1. Table Saw with an accurate fence and an outfeed table
2. Delta 12" cutoff saw, mounted at chest height along the long wall with supports off the wall to hold lumber.

Now you can work with plywood and rip boards and crosscut. With a jig you can even finish edge boards, but without a jointer and plane that won't do much good. Without the J/P you'll need to buy your stock at least S2S (surfaced two sides). If you tune your saw and use a high quality, non-thin kerf, carbide blade, you can get glue ready edges on your board and cut to length with accuracy.

For lumber storage I put up a 2x4 stud wall, and drilled 7/8" holes at 3 degrees above horizontal to hold 3/4" black pipe for shelves. It runs the entire length of the shop and lets me store 16' long boards.

3. Stand alone router table (or shaper - I bought the Delta 43-355, along with the spindle that holds 1/4" and 1/2" router bits). This lets you do edge work and make doors. You're now ready to make cabinets.

For more versitility add a planer next. If you then get a jointer, you'll finish off the main tools you'll need to do most anything.

<font color="blue">As a side issue, how big is big enough in band saws. </font color>

Band saws are nice, but would be one of the lower list items in my opinion. However, being able to resaw over 6" wide pieces is sometimes nice.

<font color="blue">For planers - how big is big enough in width,thickness, single pass cuting depth, horse power?</font color>

I wouldn't get less than 15" wide and two horsepower. Infeed and outfeed tables are nice.

<font color="blue">When sucking 1500 cfm out of a conditioned space for very long...</font color>

Don't suck it out - get an Oneida Air Cyclone Filter and you'll be amazed at how little dust will be in the air. The high capacity filters get all the dust out. Sometimes I will just run the main collector with several blast gates open to clear the air. Also, these big machines run with a low-pitched rumble, rather than an annoying whine - so the noise won't be a problem.

<font color="blue">The shop will have 10 ft ceilings unless someone makes a case for taller ones. </font color>

Go as high as you can.

I also highly recommend the book Taunton Press - The Workshop Book. Good ideas and nice pictures.

[robertn]

The variety of tools is staggering. I always like looking in the Rockler catalog.

As important as the tools are, thier setup is just as important. I was enlightened one day, watching Norm Abrams talking about and demonstrating shop setup.

The thing that really struck me, was that he set each bench up at the same height. He set things so his router table, bandsaw, drill press, table saw ect were all at the same height too. It worked really nice when he had large material. The material could be supported by on of the other benches if it was long. It was also easy to transfer heavy things from bench to tool to bench.

It was nice that his compund mitre saw fit into a bench, with the working surfaces flush.

Of all the tools and stuff he showed, that one simple thing really got my attention.

[Pat]

Steve, It wasn't a test or a right answer but your selectons are echoed in later posts. I have the vac, table saw, floor standing drill press, mitersaw (a cheap sears variable miter angle chop saw sort of thing with small blade, 6 and a fracton inch joiner (a lathe too but it is a Unimat minature metal turning lathe). You didn't say waht kind of sander. I have a small B&amp;D belt sander and a disk sanding arrangement on my radial arm saw.

Egon, I just finished watching a rerun of "Music Man" any your comments smack of his "think" method.

Andy, Workbench, he said, slapping his forehead... (good call) I was thinking I would want more than the standard 14 inch bandsaw but wanted confirmation, Thanks. I saw the portable dust collector but think I will go for (in the words of Tim the tool man Taylor) MORE POWER. About the lost air, toward the end of my original post my light bulb came on for a while and I decided some sort of inclosure with good filters i the walls woild solve the llost air problem and with proper baffles I can quiet it OK. I don't have a problem with used equip and saving $ except finding it. THere are several votes for 12 ft ceilings or as high as possible.

About the separate shop for metal working. Nah, I gotta come up with a way to share. Maybe a portable folding screen on castors like what passes for privacy in a hospital only made with thin gauge galvanized to stop sparks and debris. If I have to go too far from the nest, I will not do it as much. I already have a 35x70 shop with 14 ft rollup doors at opposite ends but it will be 1/4 mile as the crow flies or 1/2 mile driving from the new house and I want something AT the house. This new shop will be attached to the house like an attached garage and the garage will be at the other end of it away from the house. I have to put it all in a 36x24 area with some additional storage space, half of a 15x20 ft room split diagonally, conditioned space and an unconditioned space 21x48 with roof and enclosed on three sides (one long side is open to the southeast.) I will be investigating how to reduce fire danger, thanks to your comments.

JTD, Sorry to mislead, cabinets are a consideration (building new house) but I can only use so many cabinets and then I have to build a pool table, gun cases, and on and on. I got a good recommendaton for a Craftsman planer-molder ($700 +) Hang filters? You mean the fan in a box with replaceable filter cart like a furnace? I bought one of those but think I will probably build something myself. Something large and quiet with lots of filter area. I intend to use blast gates and will design a sensor to turn on the dust collector when a tool is turned on. Could incorporate an interlock that prevents running the machine wiht the blast gate closed. My one small dust filter has a remote. I assume from your comments that some dust collectors have remotes. I think I wiould prefer just having it come on when a tool is turned on and run for xx seconds after the tool is turned off. Thanks for the vote for having the shop tractor accessable. I was vacilating on that. All I have to do is put a tractor sized door between the shop and the 21x48 shed on the side of the shop. (and then tryu to figure out how to seal it and insulate it)

BeenThere, thanks for your input. A good argument for not drywalling the shop... Maybe peg board instead and of course some of the BIG pegs as you mentioned to put in holes in the studs. Alternatively, I cold OSB the inside and hang pegboard anywhere I want it on top of that with spaces. In a shed I built at my prevous house I put peg board up with hinges and butterfly fasteners to use the storage between the studs for small things and hung the larger things from pegs on the outside surface of the pegboard. ???? I couldn't have done what you are planning to do. ???? Say What?

DocHeb, I like the lumber storage peg idea a lot. I'll try to work that in. Also thanks for the URLs. I'm thinking I'll probably build my own filtration system for cleaning the shop air ( I've had some experience designing work stations ,flow booths, for clean rooms. I saw a homebrew dust collector that I like. It used the large paper drums with metal bottom and rim on top. When one fills up, you swap for an empty. Hey doc... As high as I can?? The roof ridge of this new shop is 30 ft above the slab. Maybe I don't need all that height. It would complicate HVAC.

RobertN, Good thing, even benches... on HD casters. I saw a nice tool mounting system where yor favius benchtop tools are mounted on rectangular platforms and are stored in a vertical rack. You put the tool of immediate interest into a benchtop dock. I was told by a woodworking devotee that there are plans out on those for the DIY crowd.

Thanks to all who contributed. Gives me some more good ideas.

Patrick

[beenthere]

<font color="blue"> ???? I couldn't have done what you are planning to do. ???? Say What?
</font color>
I was just referring to planning my shop tools in advance of purchasing. I had to do it in steps, and figure out what I needed and what I was interested in making as time went on. You are more organized in your planning. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]