AUTO BUYING ADVICE REQUEST

[Pat]

Gary, Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. I think my wife would be happier with a hatchback. If I recall correctly, "Consumer's Reports" wasn't as positive about the Toyota as they were the Honda. We just got a new "Consumer's Reports" in and I haven't got it out of "HER" grip yet. I think it has recent car stuff in it. Maybe it will have the hatchback.

I know we could just buy the gas and we aren't super passionate GREENS either but if we can find a hybrid that is close enough to what we want then why not save at least $8000 in 10 years (no compounding, no NPV considerations, no investment opportunity cost consideration, just simple savings.

With our estimated annual mileage, the diff between Subaru and Honda Civic hybrid fuel consumption, and the current Oklalhoma gas prices ($1.57) we'd save about $8,000 in 10 years. If gas prices go up then the savings will go up also.

I would hope that a hybrid will last long enough so that the next car could be a fuel cell vehicle in its 2nd or 3rd year of production.

Pat

[Gatorboy]

I can't understand why the Honda Hybrid gets WORSE gas mileage than my 1984 Honda CRX. I think my CRX got something like 53 city/69 highway.

I am one that thinks the auto manufacturers and oil companies are in bed together. I am sure they could make cars that get much better gas mileage if they really wanted too.

[Pat]

Dave (gatorboy), I don't understand all I know about fuel economy BUT I don't subscribe to the URBAN MYTH about all those 200MPG carbs out there that were bought up and filed away by the oil-auto consortium.

You don't think maybe 20 years of increasingly tight emission standards may have had a part do you?

I am not familiar with the '84 CRX. Does it weigh as much as a Civic Hybrid?

I think I recall reading about the Honda lean burning stratified charge engine that would give about 50MPG or so but was a tad high in NOX.

Anyway, I guess I'm stuck choosing from among the offerings of the major manufacturers. If I had the luxury of waiting 2-4 years I might have a better selection or just be convinced then that yet another few years will produce THE RIGHT CAR. I don't intend to wait for practical fuel cell cars.

Pat

[Pat]

Gary, We're still looking forward to following up on your Prius lead. Unfortunately NONE of the dealerships are open on Sunday. I was blissfully unaware and ignorant so we wasted a trip to Oklahoma City. Like several other folks, we parked near the locked gates and strolled around the lots.

This reminded me of my 3 winters in Minot, North Dakota. They had "blue" laws there that prevented the selling of meat on Sunday. Canned was OK but not fresh. Milk was a no no as well. Vending machines that sold milk were installed so you could buy milk on Sunday but no one sold milk on Sunday, just a machine. Car vending machines?

I think we would like a Forester but my wife's concerns for increasing gas prices tends to poison that idea although it isn't dead yet. Of the current candidates, the front runners to be checked out are: Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda CR-V.

Of these, I have only been in a CR-V and that was years ago and then only as a back seat passenger. When I can sit in and drive these candidates the selection process might be moved forward rapidly. Although we havent seen the Prius Hatchback, it has strong wifely interest as she doesn't want a trunk "well" that is inconvenient for lifting heavy stuff up out of and we are hoping the hatchback cures that.

The Honda dealership had a used '03 Toyota Prius with 5500 miles on it but no price was posted and as it wasn't a hatchback we weren't very interested, except why it was being sold after only 5500 miles.

The CR-V was highly rated overall by "consumer's Reports" and was just narrowly edged out by the Subaru Forester. Regarding fuel consumption, I know EPA mileage estimates may not fit any given person's driving but they should be useful for comparisons. Mileage honors go to the CR-V over the Forester.

So many choices, so little time...

Patrick

[bgott]

I made the mistake of getting in the back seat of that Yugo and they almost had to remove a front seat to get my 6'4'' self out of it.

I didn't think much of VWs when I was a kid but now I think they are pretty cool. I've come to respect simplicity and you can't get much simpler than an old VW! You can dismantle and rebuild the whole car with a tote tray full of tools and a floor jack and you can skip the jack if you have a good sized friend around. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[bgott]

Parts availability and service would scare me away from hybrids. It's hard enough these days to find technicians capable of repairing conventional cars, how many are capable of and equipped to repair what are basically one- off vehicles?

[GaryM]

That's a point to take into account. But I am going to be "only" 30 miles or so from a Toyota dealer, so I'm not too worried.

The current Prius has a 100K warrenty on the drive system/battery pack. That's not to say there couldn't be problems, but I think Toyota is going to press forward on the hybred concept, along with others.

[jeffghs]

Pat,
I have still been looking for some more info on the diesel Jeep Liberty, but it just seems everyone is silent about it right now. There was an article (TruckTrend magazine Sept. 03)about the diesels used in Europe, and they mentioned again in there about them coming out this year. Another diesel I found impressive on paper at least was the VW Touareg, although quite pricey. They should be hitting the lots soon.

As for the hybrids, I would like to see them develop a little more before they become a viable option for me. Some other things to consider are insurance costs. Some of the parts in these are very expensive. The batteries from what I have found range from 3-8 thousand depending on brands. This was about a year ago when I was seriously looking. Toyota and Honda certainly have a leg up on most other manufacturers. I have also seen some mention of a hybrid CRV in the works. I did look at the CRV last year, and was quite impressed with the room in there.

I don't know that I have given you anything useful to use, but good luck anyway.

Jeff

[Pat]

BGOTT, It wasn't just being nearly trapped in the back seat that made it such a bad experience, it was being trapped back there all alone. When I had 8 people in my VW bug, 2 of us were guys and the other 6 were sorority girls in strapless formals. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Pat

[fivestring]

<font color="blue">"2 of us were guys and the other 6 were sorority girls in strapless formals." </font color>

OMG... I would've hated to have been in your shoes... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]