We are going to be converting part of our 30x48 pole barn for our two three-year old quarter horses. We plan for this to serve as optional shelter with the door open most of the time, so they can come and go from building to pasture as they please. Right now the only floor in there is about 5 inches of sand, which was put in a couple of years ago as prep for concrete. My question is, what is the best flooring to go with in this situation? The horses are not shod, and we don't intend to shoe them. Should we go with concrete, matts, and shavings? Or is it better for the horses to stay away from that? Of course, cost is a factor, but the most important thing is the health, safety, and happiness of the horses. All opinions and experiences are appreciated!
My wife's the horse person, I just do what I'm told as far as building things. We have well drained soil and put down about 6" of limestone sreenings, compacted. On top of the screenings we put heavy rubber we buy from the local gravel quarry. It's the material from their conveyor belts that carry gravel, and it's about a half inch thick and about 3 foot wide, and hernia heavy. Small cracks between the pieces for drainage. In the winter you need to put something on the rubber for warmth. We've used both shavings and straw. I would say that the horses seem to not soil the stalls nearly as much with the rubber in there. Not sure why, they sure don't mind going on the trailer floor.
We were told that sand is bad for horses feet, it's too abrasive.
There are a number of threads regarding this on CBN and TBN so you might want to search on them.
Here is my take based on what you describe. If you are going to use this as a “run in†for your horses to get out of the weather then I would level and compress the ground, lay stall matts over the entire area(no gaps) and cover with shavings(probably 6†deep). When you are laying the stall matts make sure that they butt up to each other tightly to keep them from shifting. You would be surprised at how much those matts will move over time.
There are a number of studies out there regarding sand/soil and concrete beneath the matts so you can make your own decision. One poster here, Cowboydoc, feels its best to use concrete so you can pull the matts out periodically and disinfect. I think that the soil tends to decompose the urine and is not a problem. If you don’t get new horses coming in and out then I don’t think disinfecting a lot is all that needed. Like I said there are good horsemen that see it differently…..
The other thing is the entrance area in and out of the run in. If there is no lip then the horses will forever be pulling shavings out of the stall area as they exit. You don’t mention if there is a grade change there but you might think about some sort of barrier. We have the lower metal rail of our barn that we use and it sits about 1†above the matts. We clean at least twice a day and, during that time, we pull the shavings back away from the door. The other thing to think about is the area right outside the entrance. If the horses will be going out when it is raining then you are going to see a depression develop due to the traffic. Some folks will put road base there or another matt…..see what works best if you run into that problem.
I am always surprised at the amount of time some horses will lie down. If yours are inclined to do that then you might want to bed deeper than 6â€Â.
Last thing….you don’t mention what the stall walls are. If you use pipe panels inside you may want to line the bottom 4 feet (or whatever fits to the right rung) with plywood on the outside if they are not kickers. This will help keep the shavings in and, if they cast themselves, they are not likely to get a leg underneath the panel.
Thanks, Mark. Some good food for thought there. We have a pretty decent elevation change where they'll be coming into and out of the barn. I didn't realize you can use those stall matts outdoors. How does that work on a hill? Maybe the road base material is a better way to go there. I also didn't realize that people put the matts on top of material other than concrete.
If it's already in sand I would just leave it. Especially if it's just a run-in type shed. No reason at all that I can think of to go to the expense of putting in concrete, stall mats, and shavings. Just pick the manure out once a day and that will be a great run-in for them. I don't have anything but dirt in any of my run-in sheds. I actually don't even have concrete in my stalls. We had always used a limestone crush for a base.
If I was building new I would use concrete ONLY for stalls. The reason is that it's 100x easier to keep everything in place. No matter how good of a prep job you do, no matter how good you clean your stalls, no matter how good your drainage, the material under the mats breaks down, the mats shift, holes start with frost heaving, etc. I never used concrete much before as the research at the time showed it was hard on the animals legs. A new study shows with the proper mats, 4-6" of good shavings, that there was no difference in muscle fatigue or stress on joints. The next barn I build will have all concrete with a drain in each stall.
Melissa,
It sounds like you have much the same set up we do, with 2 of our stalls, as the horses go from stall to the turn out pen. We only have one horse per stall and turn out, so its not a large issue. We put road base down and thats enough for the light traffic. In the old barn we used to keep our horses in, we had a lot of traffic in a small area and during the wet season it was a mud hole. We simply built up that area with road base and put 2 rubber matts down. We took rebar, bent the top just past 90 degrees and drove it through the matt and into the ground. It lasted that way for years.
For this barn, I compacted the natural dirt, put the barn up, filled in with decomposed granite, compacted and layed the matts in. No problem and an inexpensive solution. Though I dont plan on moving the barn if I ever did, having that concrete there would be one more thing to deal with. I would have to see pretty compelling data, in more than one study, to move to concrete for a set up of our size.
I see CowboyDoc posted his reply and, though he and I have the same passion for performance horses(reiners and working cowhorse), we see things differently on this subject. Perhaps he and I will meet at the NRHA futurity or Snafflebit one of these years and can have a good natured debate over small items like this.
Setting up a barn correctly can be a real time saver and help keep vet bills down so see what works for you.
I agree with cowboydoc. I see no reason to mess with concrete, or mats, or shavings in this case. The only thing that I would add is that if you are planning to feed hay in the run-in, especially if you are going to feed it on the ground (i.e., without using a raised feeder/manger), then you should cover the sand with a few inches of soil/dirt because if the horses ingest enough sand while eating the hay they can get sand colic.
If you don't want to deal with getting the dirt, just make sure you feed the hay in a raised feeder.
<font color="green">we see things differently on this subject. Perhaps he and I will meet at the NRHA futurity or Snafflebit one of these years and can have a good natured debate over small items like this.
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Heck there's no reason for debate. I wouldn't say either way is wrong, concrete or not. I'm so dang busy that I hate to take the time to tear the stalls down and regrade every couple years under them. No matter how good you get it done if you have horses in the stalls all the time it becomes uneven. The stalls that we have that are concrete we have never touched them, some for 20 years and they look just like the day they were put in. What I hate is going to horses shows that have concrete stalls with no mats down. You have to put in 10 bags of shavings just to get them off the concrete. And of course at 99% of the shows anymore you have to have a stall, have to use their bedding, and can't keep your horse in your trailer. [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]
For the next 10 years you probably won't see me at the futurity or anywhere else. My girls have set it on fire with their barrel racing and that's about all we're doing lately. While you're at the futurity I'll be over at Martha Josey's ranch in Texas for the big 4 day thanksgiving clinic and barrel racing. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Wouldn't miss it for even the NFR though. Watching those girls do well gives me more pride than any of my accomplishments. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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