security light on garage help..

[mopower440]

heres the story, i have a garage, the driveway goes up to the garage, we park our vehicles about 50 feet in front of the garage, it is pitch black in this area at night so i want to put a security lite over the roll up door on the garage that will lite up the garage door area and maybe up to 70 feet in front of the garage where we park at so we can see the vehicles when dark getting in and out. want one that comes on at dark and goes out when sun comes up. i want a metal halide type because its efficient and puts out white light taher than the amber color sodium puts out, but either one will do. My problem is i dont know what brightness to get, i dont want to lite up the whole 6 acres, but dont want it to be too dimm either, any ideas?
thanks

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum
Why not a motion detector light?
On when you need it, off when you don't need it, but on when someone is moving about that isn't supposed to be there too.

I don't understand the desire for an all night light to 'light things up'. Getting so the countryside is becomming a 'city' with all the 'street lights'. Not much for security, as it lights the way for any intruders (whereas a motion detector has to make them a bit nervous when they set it off). Of course, these lights could have 'shades' on them too, so the light shines down and not 'out' across the countryside. Why not? [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Just my opinion. Of course, you can do as you wish. I wish for it to be dark, so I can't see lights on all night that are up to 15-20 miles away.

[jimbrown]

Those all night lights are illegal here in southern Arizona. You could see it for 100 miles and all the neighbors would be shooting at it. Go with motion detetor.

[johnday]

jimbrown; Sodium/mercury vapor lights make for excellent target practice. Some of us can hit em at 400 yards!! [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ljh2]

I'm not too fond of the suggestions by some folks here that it is acceptable to shoot out someone else's lights -- of course if you want shoot at your own, well that's up to you.

I will second the suggestion to go with a motion sensor light though. I personally find the dusk-to-dawn lights that some of my neighbors have pretty annoying. I like to be able to see the stars outside at night and to just have plain-ole darkness in my bedroom window when I turn out the lights for the night.

You need to weigh your specific need for light against the impact of your lights on those around you. Well directed lighting for the tasks at hand that is only on when needed should serve most people's needs in most situations.


Good luck with your selection.
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[Autotech]

So far the replies have centered around the issue of too much "waste" light, but haven't offered much in the way of useful advice.

I agree that there is WAY too much light being cast all over for no good reason other that the dubious concept of "security" compounded by poor or lazy lighting design and installation.

For some reason it has become popular in recent years to light a yard or driveway by attatching an overpowered vapor discharge lamp of some type to the closest building and simply flood the entire driveway, yard, nearby road, neighbors house, etc, etc, with as much light as possible.

Why?

Because its a fast, easy, no-brain solution that requires minimal effort to implement, and whose downsides can be excused by pointing to the next nearest installation and mumbling something about security....

Unfortunately my property was blessed with two of these ridiculous mercury vapor lights when I aquired it, and I can't wait til my budget will allow me to remove them and put them on E-bay where they belong. Instead I intend to install properly shaded/shielded down lights at the building entrances, and install similar lights on poles along frequently travelled pathways. Downlights are designed to illuminate only those areas where light is actually needed - a doorway, a path, part of a driveway, etc, by creating light "puddles". Well designed fixtures will eliminate almost all horizontal light shed or glare, and completely eliminate any upward light broadcast. By doing so they provide not only excellent illumination when placed correctly, but they will allow substantially better vision into the lighted areas from nearby - so you will actaully be able to see the "intruder" at your garage instead of just a white glare.

The drawback to this type of installation is increased cost and labor, as more fixtures must be installed to cover the same square footage. This increases not only the cost of installation but also operating cost.

Personally I prefer being able to put light where I want it, and not shining it all over the neighborhood.

In terms of controls, I have seen a set up I liked very much. The lights were wired on a timer and optical or light sensor in series. This allowed the lights to come on at a preset time, shut off at dawn, turn on at dusk, and then shut off at a preset time. In addition a motion/light detector is installed on a shunt or bypass circut so that any motion detected after dark will cause the lights to illuminate. I intend to use this type of circut and several variations in different locations on my property depending on my needs.

Gregg

[JKlender]

I am a retired electrician and I am a fan of motion detector lamps. The new motion detector lamps use pulse count technology that cuts down on the false sensing. I have a 500 watt quartz on both the front and back of my pole barn, and a 300 watt on the side nearest the home. The home has motion detectors lamps at the doors. Although they are more wattage than your usuall high pressure sodium or murcury vapor, in the long run they will be alot cheaper to operate. They give you lots of white light when you need it. The 500 watts are not too bright, except maybe when there is snow on the ground. I have the detectors set up to stay on about 5 minutes. I also cut down on the huge amount of moths, beetles, and other light sensitive bugs that used to stay around the barn during the day. I use motion detector circuits withim my barn, too. Light up when I walk thru, and shut off as I leave.

[Pat]

Count my vote for motion detector. Don't try to use ballasted lights like sodium, mercury vapor or whatever with a motion detector as they hate to be hot cycled. Quartz halogen is a good choice or just plain incandescent tungsten. Lights will be on for such a short time resulting in a good energy savings that worrying about efficient lumens per watt is unimportant. Being an advocate of the "International Dark Sky Association" I favor lights that do not send appreciable light skyward.

All the light going out toward the horizon or higher is wasted. There are fixtures purposely designed to control stray light polution. You can make home made reflectors or light blocking/controlling devices so you concentrate the light where it is needed not shining in your distant neighbors eyes.

As far as the FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY brought on by mindless "LIGHT THE NIGHT" attitude is concerned... consider this... In general in a rural venue at night a passerby would not have a clue you or your possessions were there if you didn't light them up like a used car lot so they could shop for something to steal. Statistics do not favor the "LIGHT THE NIGHT" approach in rural areas. Folks shopping for plunder will pass you by in favor of the guy down the road who lights his place up.

Motion detector lights attract more attention and raise concerns of detection more than steady lights. Fiercely bright lights on motion detector circuits are a superior solution for crime prevention when compared to dusk to dawn lights.

If you feel you just have to have some illumination dusk to dawn for your porch light, there are porch lights that have photo cells to turn them on at night at a reduced intensity. These have a motion detector as well and the light goes to full intensity when it detects motion. These are available reasonably cheap at Lowe's etc. in various good looking coach lamp and pole lamp styles.

Almost anything is better than dusk to dawn lighting with no glare control spreading light polution all over the area and into space. There is so much light polution now that on a clear night there is hardly anywhere in the world that appears dark from orbit except at sea and near the poles.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]