RE-NEWABLE ENERGY / WIND POWER

[Lplates]

Hi Pat

Thanks for the information, I have visions of 50 sections +bolts flying across the fenland in a few years??

The wind farm companies in the UK insist in constructing these turbines close to peoples home, the nearest wind farm to me would be 650 metres.

We are not against renewable energy or wind turbines, but like in America and other countries they should be constructed in remote areas.

One member has mentioned that they are always in bits and being fixed, well try this one, they have put a turbine up here near a town, but it doesnt work because they cannot connect it to the grid, they get it to turn occasionaly by linking it up to a generator.

Another issue here all the turbine sites around here are planned to be on agricultural land, "I'd love to see a turbine plough a field". the farmers who own the land agree because of the large pay off they recieve each year.


L.Plates

[Pat]

Mark, The Savonius rotor has its problems too. It has to be guyed. It isn't practical to elevate the base much so dual use of the land except maybe as a solar farm is prety much out of the question.

They are a good choice where the winds are highly variable in direction and or change direction without slowing first.

Actually a commercial sized wind farm can run in the black and replace a fossil fuel or nuke B U T you have to have wind most all the time as there is at present no efficient means of storing energy for later release. The latest idea is to store compressed air underground in large caves. This pressurized air could run a turbine to produce power when the wind was temporarily insufficient.

What killls so many home power types is that they THINK they have a windy location but there are L O N G periods of time when the wind is below 7-9 mph.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Bird, Ah man... Back when Burma Shave signs wre everywhere one of the oil companies had Savonius rotors painted half and half light and dark as part of a moving advertisement sign. I don't recall who it was and it moight =have been a chain of muffler shops or something rather than fililng stations. I recall the whirlygig just not who had it...

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Lplates, There seems to be a "remote area" gap between the UK and the US. We are losing much of our wide open spaces but still have quite a lot compared to you. I'm sure if there were OPEN spaces available with no one near by to protest AND there was wind a plenty, they'd build the wind farms there. Why not?

There must be some economic incentive to build where they want to build or they wouldn't want to build there. Production near consumption is often a good idea.

Alternatively maybe you can start a consortium that will build wind farms at sea on tethered (anchored) barges. The energy can be beamed back to the mainland (is that an appropriate ref to the British Isles??) in the form of microwaves and be recovered by large SILENT dish antennas which can be camoflaged.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Lplates]

HI

Going by what your saying about wind, this location is not rearly suitable. during the summer month's we hardly get any wind a gentle breeze sometimes. and during the winter no wind or strong gales. can go day's, month's with no real wind.

During the summer month's the company has said they will shut the turbines down when the sun is likely to cause Flicker, so with no wind and shut down due to flicker, they are never going to produce anything?.

L.Plates [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[mfaley]

Pat,
I may not be current on this but, as I recall, if a person tries to sell power back to the large CA utilities such as PGE they sell it at what PGE ‘s cost to produce is. That being the case, I don’t think the ROI would be there to support it. Maybe there are subsidies that would make a difference but I don’t see how someone can produce power commercially for so much less than the big utilities so make it worthwhile adding to the grid. Or am I missing something?

Thanks,
Mark

[Anjou]

I can certainly understand your concerns, but I think you need to look at the "big picture" before you pass judgement. The purpose of windmills is to generate electricity, which is, for the most, part generated by 50-year-old coal-fired power plants, which are NOT subject to the stringent emission limitations of modern environmental legislation (incidentally, President Bush's Clear Skies Initiative would allow these gross polluters to indefinitely generate far greater emissions than modern facilites [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] ) . Think about the environmental damage associated with the combustion of massive quantities of coal. Can you imagine the impact of the hundreds of thousands of tons of sulfur dioxide generated by each plant on an annual basis, the impact of mining the coal (strip mining in West Virgina, for example), and the transportation of the coal via rail. In the case of large scale coal combustion, the impact is not just localized (as is the case with windmills) -- the pollution travels for hundreds of miles downwind. Many people also get upset about municipal waste incinerators (trash-to-steam plants), but these same people have no problem with backyard burn barrels, which result in far more deleterious health effects.

[Pat]

Lplates, A couple things to think about...
1. How does a camel get into your tent? ... first he gets his nose under the edge and then...

2. If there really is no wind there most of the time why was the $ invested and by whom? Is it a scam to build something to sell to unsuspecting environmentally sensitive folks residing in other areas?

Something doesn't add up.

Pat

[Pat]

mfaley, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. My comments about wind power economics were about commercial wind farms, NOT small private installations. Most small private alternative energy installations, especially solar but including wind most of the time but excluding proper hydro installations, DO NOT PAY. They may give the owner bragging rights at the environmentalist's club meetings but they are not economically sound investments. I have subscribed to "Home Power" for years and it is extremely rare that they ever publish anything about a installation that has a realistic payback when compared to the grid. Notable exceptions are when the grid tie point is so far away that the cost of bringing power to a remote site is more expensive than producing it on site even with "alternative" means.

Some states allow the utilities to sell you electricity at retail but buy it from individuals at wholesale so it isn't a level plalying field. It is real hard to justify alternative energy at wholesale electric rates. Other states have net metering laws where the meter can run backwards when you are producing more power than you are consuming thus getting credit for your excess production at full retail rates. However, with net metering usually comes the caveat that you can't reduce your bill below $0.00 so you can't make a profit only reduce your electric costs.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Lplates]

HI

Yes I can see what your saying and agree that polution from these other means is 100% Less.

NObody here is against any form of renewable energy including wind turbines. The only big objection here is that they are being constructed so close to peoples homes. Is there any real need to construct wind farms within half a mile or less to peoples homes.

Looking into other sites and information from members on this forum I have to conclude that the answer to this is NO.

In america and other countries it comes across every time that these wind farms are built in remote areas. If that was the case here, there would not be the outcrys there is.

I do admit the resistance to the wind turbines comes from those who are in close proximity to them, others who will not see them have no problem with it.

L.Plates.