Missing Post-Border Closed

[RonNY]

in the LIVESTOCK FORUM
I have asked privately(PM) one of the listed moderators, no response, SO I will ask Publicly, WAS MY POST CENSORED/deleted? the post was started 2/13/05
Titled:[b] " Border will remain closed"[b]
[b] It had 19 posts when it was deleted [b]
the last post that was:
<font color="blue">
The heck with science, How about common sense ?
Example, your fishing with your grandchildren, you get to your neighbors small farm pond, you spend hours fishing with no luck, BUT while your trying to catch fish one fish floats to the top and is thrashing around, trying to swim but can't, keeps floating to top,flips sideways,tall up, head up,etc.etc. then another fish floats to the top, then another,and another, would you take those floaters home to eat- NO, thats obvious, lets say you luck out and actually hook a fish from that small pond- would you eat that fish you caught knowing that there is something wrong in that pond ??? How many fish did the same thing and sunk (undetected)? , that you did not witness?, Would you take that chance, having witness those 4 fish, would you let your grandkids take that chance? Lets stay with that farm pond, the farmer comes along and throws a net and catches most of the fish and unintentionally the four floaters get into the net, should he be allowed to bring them to market? you tell him what you saw, he takes the 4 fish out and disposes them in the garbage, do you think he should bring the other fish to market? NOT KNOWING what is in that pond, or how many fish are sick but don't show signs of the sickness?????? Then you could add to this it will be 9 - 21 years before people show signs of this disease, so maybe its O.K. because people don't get sick in days, but 10 years down the line, and not everyone who eats these fish gets sick ? These are questions that the science of the day CANNOT answer, or don't want to answer (depending on who they work for) maybe we should just start using common sense

Ron </font color>

I have asked other menbers if this post is visible on their computers/ thinking I had a computer problem, but they have responded it is also missing on their computer

What was so offensive about the above post??????
Why was that post allowed to run 29 days??????
If the above post was offensive why remove the whole threat??
Is it not reasonable to at least notify the person who started the thread the reasons for removing the thread?????
and finally , can the powers of this forum tell me what are the ground rules for removing a thread and show me what was violated in the last post of that thread????

Ron

P.S. If you remove this post , will you notify me by PM??????

edited add on- Just for the people who don't know, this post was discussing BSE(mad cow) and the border being closed to Canadian Beef Exports

[Bird]

Ron, I don't have any problem pulling up that thread and your quoted "last post" is there along with the other 18 posts in that thread.

[GaryM]

I don't find it on my menu. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Bird]

Hmmm, well, I'm not a moderator on this CBN, so I don't know what happened. I don't find it on the menu, but by clicking on Ron's username, then "Show all user's posts" it's there. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[RonNY]

Bird
I have answered Pat &amp; Egron on that post after it dissappeared
from the forum, by using the post reminder on MY HOME page, before I realize that it is missing from the Livestock Forum!
if it is censored, Maybe that end of it will be gone since we are talking about a "BACKDOOR" to this thread. I don't mind if there were rules being broken, just wish they would tell me which rules??

Ron

[Pat]

TRUST NO ONE!

...

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[mfaley]

I also do not see it.
I am not an expert on this subject so I enjoyed the spirited debate.

If this one was pulled I am sorry to see it leave as I found it educational.
Mark

[egon]

Just a little more info.

INDEPTH: MAD COW
Mad Cow in Canada: The science and the story
CBC News Online | March 2, 2005

For years, Canada had been virtually free of mad cow disease. But in May 2003, veterinary officials in Alberta confirmed that a sick cow sent to a slaughterhouse in January of that year had been inspected, found to be substandard, and removed so that it would not end up as food for humans or other animals. The carcass was, however, sent to a processing plant for rendering into oils. Its head was kept for testing. Samples were sent to the world testing laboratories in the U.K., which confirmed the case of mad cow.

"What is important is that the system worked," said Shirley McClellan, Alberta's agriculture minister at the time. "We have a very thorough and respected inspection system." She was insistent to remind the public that the disease is not contagious within a herd.

But McClellan's assurances didn't stop the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Australia and other countries from imposing temporary import bans of Canadian beef.

QUICK FACTS
Canada has close to 13.5 million cows and calves. About 5.7 million (or 42 per cent) are in Alberta.

Canada's total beef exports amount to $2.2 billion annually, and have risen sharply in recent years. Since 1991, beef exports have risen from 100,000 tonnes to about 500,000 tonnes. Growth in exports has been greatest to Japan, South Korea and Mexico. Alberta's share of total beef exports is 39 per cent (worth about $860 million a year).


Several ranches in Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan were quarantined as a precaution, including the infected cow's home ranch.

In an investigation into the source of the infection, 1,400 cows were slaughtered and tested for the disease. No other cows were found to have BSE until late December, 2004.

Western premiers demanded $360 million compensation from the federal government for losses to the beef industry because of the mad cow scare. Ottawa would later offer $190 million.

Over the summer of 2003, cattle ranchers held barbeques across Canada to help promote Canadian beef.

In August, the U.S. reopened its borders to some Canadian beef, but the border was still closed to live cattle. By this time, a cow that would have normally sold for $1,300 was selling for $15. Canadian beef producers asked Ottawa to approve a mass slaughter of 620,000 cattle to reduce the size of the herd and prevent further damage to the industry.

In October, CBC News reported that the border would reopen to live cattle in December 2003. But on Dec. 23, 2003, the U.S. announced that it had discovered its first apparent case of BSE in a cow in Washington state.

Several countries banned beef from the U.S. soon after the announcement, but Canada restricted imports only on some products made from cattle and other ruminants. It still allowed the import of cattle destined for immediate slaughter, boneless beef from cattle under 30 months of age and dairy products.

DNA evidence later revealed that the cow was born in Canada, and the U.S. kept its border shut to live Canadian cattle.

It took a little more than a year for the United States to announce that it would reopen its border to live Canadian cattle younger than 30 months..

On Dec. 29, 2004, The USDA announced that it recognized Canada as a "minimal-risk region" for BSE and imports of young Canadian cattle would resume March 7, 2005.

The new classification means the U.S. will not again close its borders to Canadian beef unless there are two or more cases of BSE per one million cattle older than 24 months of age in each of four consecutive years. Simply put, Canada can have up to 11 cases of BSE and still be considered a safe country for cattle exports.

The move came less than a month after U.S. President George W. Bush made his first official visit to Canada and said the process for reopening the border was underway.

A day after the USDA announcement, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency reported that preliminary tests may have turned up another case of mad cow disease in a 10-year-old dairy cow. Even after the CFIA confirmed the BSE case on Jan. 3, 2005, American officials said the announcement would likely have no effect on the decision to reopen the border.

A third confirmed case of BSE in Alberta was found days after the American announcement. Canadian agriculture officials say the animal, which tested positive for the fatal disease on Jan. 11, 2005, was born after the 1997 ban on feeding cattle remains to cattle. They said the cow became infected by eating contaminated feed that had been legally produced before the ban came into effect.

The British connection

Previously, Canada had only one case of a cow infected with BSE. The animal, reported on a farm near Red Deer, Alta., in December of 1993, was imported from Britain. Agriculture Canada opted to destroy the animal and its five herd mates.

Mexico, one of the largest importers of Canadian beef at the time, temporarily banned imports of Canadian cattle after the incident. The United States, another major consumer of Canadian beef, sent observers to Canada to see how the incident was handled.


As a result, and because of the rumours of possible human health implications circulating in Britain, the Ministry of Agriculture decided to destroy any animal imported from Britain between 1982 and 1990, the year a ban was placed on British beef imports to Canada. This slaughter also included the offspring of any of those animals.

All told, 363 animals were destroyed and their owners compensated. Some said the destruction was unnecessary, especially the farmers whose cattle were killed, but the ministry said it was better to err on the side of caution after seeing what was happening in Britain. As of January 2005, 148 Britons had died of vCJD and five others were infected but still living.

During the summer of 1995, the disease surfaced again. The Canadian Red Cross Society revealed two of its donors had died of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, CJD. Two years later, concern over blood was raised again after a man was found to be a carrier of a gene linked to a hereditary form of CJD.

In August 2002, doctors confirmed a man in Saskatchewan died from new variant CJD – the human counterpart to mad cow disease. He had spent some time in the United Kingdom and it appeared he acquired the disease while he was there, doctors said.

The man had an endoscopic examination before he died and that equipment was then used on other patients. However, because of disinfection and cleaning procedures, the risk of cross contamination is minute. Public health officials phoned patients who had received examinations with the endoscope to inform them.

It's still not known if the disease can be transmitted through blood products.

In 1996, the Canadian government suspended imports of British beef embryos and semen. Agriculture Canada also began a review of the practice of using meat meal and bone meal as a protein source in beef cattle feed.

In 1997, changes designed to keep animal parts out of animal feeds were implemented. Among them, Ottawa made it illegal to give beef herds products made from rendered cattle. However, rendered cattle could be used in feed for pigs and poultry.

A month after Canada's first case of BSE, a panel of experts recommended that the parts of the cow that can pass on BSE, such as the brain and spine should be kept out of all animal feed. That's policy in most European countries.

It's a recommendation that has met stiff resistance in the beef industry. Including rendered cattle parts in feed means disposing of heads and intestines can make money for cattle farmers instead of costing them money.

Meanwhile, documents obtained by CBC News through the Access to Information Act show that in the weeks after that first case of BSE, cattle were allowed to eat feed meant for chicken and pigs. Some of the feed was likely made from the original diseased cow.

The federal agriculture minister - Andy Mitchell - says the government is moving to ban the use of cattle remains in all feed. The regulations are due to be in place by the middle of 2005.


Egon

[RonNY]

The subject had to be getting some people a little nervous ??
Don't know what was so different about this one as opposed to some older ones about BSE on this forum that even a moderator posted on with spirited replies

Ron [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

[RonNY]

<font color="blue"> Meanwhile, documents obtained by CBC News through the Access to Information Act show that in the weeks after that first case of BSE, cattle were allowed to eat feed meant for chicken and pigs. Some of the feed was likely made from the original diseased cow.

The federal agriculture minister - Andy Mitchell - says the government is moving to ban the use of cattle remains in all feed. The regulations are due to be in place by the middle of 2005.


Egon </font color>

Egon
So does that mean that Canadian beef is unsafe for years to come because it takes at least 30 months ( some say 6 years) to show "TESTABLE" signs of BSE ? , the more info gets out the worse it looks.
Maybe organic, grass fed only, beef is the only safe bet until science comes up with some SOLID - simple &amp; early testing procedures and the eventual testing of every cow slaughtered.
Sounds extreme! Yes It Does !

Ron