Egon,
not sure where you're coming from on the strength of joint .... heck, straight glue joints - cured properly - are generally strong enough in furniture applications (table tops and the like) .... and the biscuit adds as much strenth - or more - than dowels.
The beauty of biscuit joinery is -- additional gluing surface, efficient mating of pieces, more strength than a straight glue joint, and speed.
pete
it's a shame that common sense isn't
Pat, biscuits have their place, just like pocket holes.
I probably would not build a bed or chair with biscuits or pocket holes. Too much chance for racking.
Traditional M&T is better there.
I have built cabinets using both methods.
Biscuits are plenty strong for that, end tables and the like.
I've also built cabinets using pocket holes. They are a little faster for me than biscuits.
Be sure the wood you use for biscuits does expand when wet, this helps lock the joint.
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
fivestring, I have a Kreg pocket hole jig kit that I am still learning how to use. So far so good. I made some koerbels for holding up some long shelves in the sun room. The shelves are about 17 ft or so long and are made of 2x10 screwed to 2x12 with the 2x12 on top to give a nice step reveal detail. I drew up some curvaceous shapes and sawed them out on the band saw then sanded to the final shape. Pocket screws really came in handy to attach them to the studs in the walls.
Seems lately I have been complaining a lot about prices... Here goes again... I think the custom plugs for filling pocket screw holes are too expensive. It isn't rocket surgery! Just how expensive can it be to cut a piece of dowel at an angle with an automatic machine?
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Pat; you can use a plug cutter and then a chisel to trim it even.
Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
The only thing need is a jig to hold the dowel at the correct angle.
The jig would definitely help with the repetitive process.
My plug cutter only cuts 3/4 - 1". I don't know if that would be long enough for the pocket holes.
One thing I've found with pocket holes is the piece where the screw head is needs to be shimmed about 1/16" higher than the mating piece before screwing and gluing together.
Tightening the screw without shimming tends to raise the piece about 1/16". [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Gary
Bluegrass Music ...
Finger-pickin' good!
Length may be a problem. Perhaps stacking them as they just fill a void. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Pete: read in one of the wood workers magazines that the biscuit joint is weaker.
Egon
Egon, (et al) My cabinet maker was over today from about 0830 to 1600 installing shelves and hanging the doors of the cabinets. I spent the day helping so it was only a one day job. Among the topics I brought up was biscuits. He says he doesn't use them nearly as much as he thought he would when he bought the tool but that sometimes they are the right way to go. He has no problem with the strength of the joints.
As to pluging a pocket screw hole. None of my plug cutters, tapered or straight, can make a plug anywhere near long enough and putting them in behind one another is not a good solution in my estimation. The angle of the pocket screw hole is such that there is a lot of the side of the plug exposed and the part of the plug the farthest from the bottom of the hole is very exposed and not encircled with wood. Regular dowels can be used but cutting and sanding is problematical in some instances. For painted projects I think a good filler is a decent solution but clear coating or stained work requires a decent plug for either blending in or contrasting applications.
Maybe I need another tool! A dowel making capability would be good. I could make dowels of soft wood that wold be easy to work.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
"I'm not from your planet, monkey boy!"
Pat:
Biscuits - it just seems I have something against them for some unknown reason [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
There are lots of dowell making jig plans using a router to make dowels. In my grandfather's tool box resides a tool that is capable of making six ? different dowell sizes. It has a shank that fits a hand turned drill brace.
Egon
Egon ..... opinions are interesting ... over on the bike board the common saying is opinions are like a'holes ... everyone has one [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Actually, I don't know why I'm "defending" them ... more like getting the "facts" out ... heck, I have a biscuit cutter that hasn't been plugged in since they moved me to Michigan 8 years ago [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
We had a guest speaker at our woodworkers club meeting last night (http://www.midlandwoodworkers.org) who was speaking on routers. It was actually quite funny ... he has 40+ years of practice and teaching experience ... and he spent more time talking about the wonders of epoxy for hiding your mistakes [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
it's a shame that common sense isn't
When I glue up panels is when the biscuits shine for me. Quick and easy for the cutter and biscuits. I used to use dowells and a jig, but that takes longer. Keeping the panels aligned can be a problem due to slippage on wider pieces and this is where the biscuits work. I don't beieve they add any more strength than a glued butt joint, but work well for their intended purpose.
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