Focus or Prius?

[GaryM]

Pat, I guess I need to have you come to Warrenton and give me lessons in good milage! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<b>Bird</b>, the Escape may suffer in milage primarily due to it's size and shape, but the system may have been modded to provide more power as well. After all, it's a SUV, right?

Perhaps Pat knows, is the HP available in the Escape's system greater than that available in the Prius? All the energy comes from the gas engine in the end.

[Bird]

Gary, the technology may be the same (or similar), but if you go to Toyota.com and Ford.com and look at the engine specs, they don't seem to compare at all. Toyota, 76 gas engine hp, 1.5L, dual overhead cam, 67 electric engine hp, etc. and Ford, 133 gas engine hp, Atkinson cycle engine, 2.3L, 94 electric hp and 155 combined hp, etc.

Judging only from their "published" specs, it would appear that Ford claims a lot more power. Toyota, 82 ft.lbs. torque for gas, 295 ft.lbs. electric, while Ford lists 124 ft.lbs. torque for gas, but no listing for electric. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Bird]

I wonder in the real world which one accelerates better, what top speeds are, etc. I didn't find any real performance specs.

[mfaley]

Thanks Gents.

I guess one of the things I was trying to figure out is what are the real "costs" of the vehicles to the environment. As an example, building a Tour de France race bike is much more environmentally expensive than is a nice every day bike.

So my thinking is that it takes quite a bit to manufacture those extra batteries in the Hybrids and they have to be replaced. It's not ideal to simply throw batteries away in a landfill. So over the life of the vehicle....from manufacturing to disposal is a Hybrid really saving me anything from the environmental perspective?

Thanks,
Mark

[GaryM]

As far as the batteries go, I can say with some authority that Toyotas policy is to replace individual cells rather than trash the whole battery. Weak cells can be replaced.

Lead acid batteries are normally processed to reclaim useable material. That's for ones handled at dealers. Individuals probably toss them in a landfill.

[Pat]

If I recall correctly, Toyota plans to recycle the batteries. If you are comparing the GREEN-NESS of the cars including manufacture, lifecycle operations and maint, I think Prius wins. If you are comparing Prius to other cars in general, Prius wins. If you are comparing Prius to some hypothetical concept then I vote for the non-commercially available theoretical concept as it is far less poluting and resource consumptive but it won't transport 4 adults in decent comfort because it isn't available.

You might enjoy http://www.priusonline.com

They have a section on OTHER hybrids and lots of technonerds speculating on hydrogen powered cars etc.


[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Chillimau]

Pat,

What is the expected life of the batteries and replacement cost?

[mfaley]

Thanks Pat. I think Green ness is the better term for what I was thinking about. I will look at the Prius again.

I will look through that link you provided.

Thanks again.
Mark

[Pat]

Chillimau, I'm not sure of the replacement cost but the warranty on the "traction" battery is 8 years and 100,000 miles so they must not be too worried about "premature" failure. I have been unable to find a dealer that has ever replaced a "traction" battery. There are two batteries, the high voltage one for powering the electric motor and the 12 volt one for powering all the standard accessories. I assume your interest is in the high voltage one. The high voltage battery is modular and doesn't have to be replaced "en mass" should a cell die.

California rules are different and if I recall correctly the battery warranty for cars purchased in "Kalifornia" have a 150,000 warranty. Same battery and this car sells like hotcakes in California so I don't think battery changes/repairs are frequent.

mfaley... I have analyzed your concern for complexity and decided that perhaps a used Yugo might be a better choice for you.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[GaryM]

Pat,

Know why Yugo's have a heated rear window?

So your hands don't get cold when you push it in the winter! [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]