Which way to go Tire Chains or Tire Cables

[Pat]

CJDAVE, I like the chain monkey story. Some flatlanders do know about chains and about driving in the slick with or without chains. When I was stationed at that most romantic SAC base, Minot (Why not MInot?) ND, I used to be entertained and amused by the dependents (wives and kids of service personel) who hailed from the south and had no clue how to drive (or walk) on ice.

Several times each winter when in town (Minot) which is in a river valley there would be a traffic jam at the foot of the moderate incline where you left the valley for the plains. This traffic snarl was virtually always southern belles and others ignorant of winter driving techniques who when they didn't go up the hill when depressing the gas pedal, press it more and then slide backwards down hill into the folks behind or onto the shoulder.

I have had to drive as many as three cars up the hill till the highway flattened out to clear a path so I could drive up and out. Chains were not all that popular. I didn't have 4 wheel drive but I did have a VW Variant wagon with rear engine and limited slip part of my tour up there in the frozen north (AKA Baja Canada) I made it through 2 winters driving a moderately warmed over Sunbeam Tiger capable of 165 MPH with not a single scratch or getting stuck sceanario. You just have to use your head and anticipate. The car will act like an air hockey puck if you ever break traction so you have to shift/clutch, accelerate/decelerate, and turn smoothly. It also helps to assume the other guy will lose control at any random moment and do something dumb like lock his brakes and slide through an intersection.

Even folks who do pretty well have trouble on a banked curve when it is so slippery you need to maintain enough speed to keep from sliding down hill off the pavement. (Good ole centrifugal force, in moderation)

The most I ever used chains was around Big Bear, ArrowHead, Running Springs area of the mountains of SOCAL.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[CJDave]

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] In the summer of 1996 I married Jeepchick. We rented my big home in Modesto to some close friends, and began our married life in her beautiful, split-level, mountain home in Sugar Pine CA (that's on hiway 108) at the 4500 foot level. Previous to that I had driven in snow a total of two (2) times. When November came, Jeepchick bought me a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Select-Trac FWD system. That Jeep taught ME how to drive in snow. It took us three weeks to spec out the Chrokee.... 4.0L six....(the V8 would have added 270 pounds to the front axle...BAD for snow)...a FWD system that had "open center" FWD as well as "yoked up" FWD.....the highest gear available in the axles.....and NO heavy skid plates that we didn't need and which deprived the auto tranny of cooling from the normal hiway speed slipstream. The result was a superb snowcar and superb fuel mileage. That vehicle has 203,000 miles on it now and still runs like it is brand new. If I know that snow is coming, I fill the fuel tank, and by doing so I can get the weight of the Cherokee very close to 50-50 front-to-rear. I drive RIGHT BY people who are struggling in snow and don't even know I'm on slicky stuff. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Our Jeep stable includes my Grand Cherokee, Jeepchick's Wrangler, and our 1979 Jeep CJ with the Quadra-Trac drive. The Quadra-Trac in the CJ has been modified to what I refer to as Quadra-Snow drive by machining out the "bias" clutches in the inter-axle differential. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Pat]

Dave, Having good equipment certainly helps and can make a novice look good up to a point but don't discount the driver. A good driver with snow and ice experience can tool around pretty good in a much less than optimum rig when less skilled folk with superior vehicles are sliding into ditches and each other. Of course the best combination is like you with both good equipment and skill. Sometimes caution and a little intelligence can substitute for a lot of skill if speeds are reduced.

I used to go to a strip mall after it closed (they rolled up the sidewalks quite early on weekends in Minot, ND) and use the snow and ice covered empty parking lot for a skid pan. The sensation of driving on ice is pretty darned close to the way a car feels at high speed (150+) but it lets you practice things at slower speeds in relaltive safety. It was fun to make 180, 360, and larger turns and then recover. I did this with a 1959 MG (pretty primitive suspension), a VW station wagon (better at this than the MG, and a Sunbeam Tiger capable of 165 MPH (not on ice.)

ND had significant winters with long lasting snow and ice but I never used chains in the three winters I was there. Just didn't need them for the driving I did. Never put a scratch on a vehicle while I was there. The rear engined VW was the best snow car of the lot. I went places before the snowplows came through in that car that stopped many others.

My only personal experience with cables was in the mountains of SOCAL, more often than not to comply with legal requirements not because I actually needed them although a few times they make life so very much easier.

Around here the road conditions don't usually require chains but it still gets quite dangerous. The danger is folks driving too fast and expecting to be able to turn or stop on snow and ice. I have watched folks come off a ramp on the interstate and totally lose control then here comes another one to run into the first and another to hit the second etc. At a 4-way stop with fair traffic density at least one of the signs will be slid past by someone with no clue. It is important to make sure the other cars are dead stopped before proceeding across and it is a good idea to note the speed of the second cars in line as they can hit the lead car and shove it into you.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[slapshot]

I got a set of the Z-cables for my truck and the wifes car. They really easy on and off.
If the weather is real bad I'll just stay at home. They would only be used to get to the main road. I have 1.5mi gravel road and Missouri Ozark hilly to get the highway. Fortuneatly at my road and the highway is a state highway dept maintenace shed. So the highway stays pretty clear.
We dont normally get much rally bad weather. Last thursday it sleeted for almost 18hrs straight we got about 3" if sleet, then about 8" of snow on top of that. Since the ground was still pretty warm underneath we now have a very nice skating rink everywhere. The cables worked great and I could have them on and off in about 15 minutes or so. So I would use them to get to the highway, take them off then go into town, then put them back on again to get to the house.

Pat,
I agree with you on the other drivers...I'd rather just stay home and not mess with any of it. Plus the road crews can do a better job with fewer cars on the road. I'll volunteer to stay home.

-dave

[Pat]

Dave, Your civic spirit, volunteering to stay home during bad-dangerous conditions, nominates you for citizen of the week. Your name has been entered into a drawing where if you win you may be selected to get a discount on a swell prize.

I used wire/cable thingies once up in the mountains around Big Bear and Lake Arrowhead (above San Berdoo and LA) and they were very easy on/off, didn't do much but were easy on/off. Actualy they made the difference in being able to go well enough to get me out where I could get into trouble instead of not being able to get out at all. In marginal conditions they made the difference in driving the car or staying in all day and watching the cabin windows frost over.

Not that I'm a total control freak but there are conditions which experience has shown to be dangerous and where your own skill and ability doesn't make much difference. One of these is driving in traffic on ice and snow, especilly in one of the first ice/snow events. The average driver has no clue and you see lots of folks sliding down hills, sliding through stop signs, sliding into each other because they don't allow properly for the conditions and make their manuevers gently so as to not break traction.

Once you break traction on ice, which is too easy, the car acts like an "air hockey puck" and the steering wheel is reduced to an ornamental hand grip untill you do something to regain traction.

Lots of folks don't plaln ahead as regards stopping and rely on just hitting the breaks pretty much at the last moment. Not a real good technique on ice.

Pat