Fences, property rights and neighbors!!

[jml755]

Well, the wife and I decided to put up the field fence along our 1400 ft property line with 6 neighbors that are less than cordial (to put it mildly). Last week, I cleared a path through thick, thick brush (using my DR Brush mower, fantastic machine). Naturally, I went over onto 1 neighbors property with the mower (about 15 ft in one stretch) because (CATCH 22) I couldn't see the stake-to-stake line until I had cleared the path. While we were setting t-posts this weekend he came out cussing and swearing about me coming onto his property. Bottom line was that he was mad because I had asked him to refrain from hunting/fishing/ATVing on my property when we bought it several years ago. I apologized about the trespass and assured him I would respect the property line now that I knew where the boundary was. He stated that "things are different up here" regarding property, stating that they used to be able to hunt/fish/whatever on the property that I now own. I reminded him that if he liked the property so much, HE could have bought it. He grudingly agreed.

I kept my cool, talked calmly, explained our position and we shook hands when we parted. I had pointed out that I wasn't much inclined to invite neighbors over to fish/hunt, etc when my neighborly wave was returned with scowls and a middle finger, in some cases. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I don't expect that this will be the end of it, but life is too short to worry much about petty things. We'll finish putting up the fence over the next few weeks and feel secure that when I let my dogs roam, they won't be running over on the neighbors' property.

By the way, I had planned to put 4x4x8' wolmanized posts every 50', but the t-posts (10 ft centers) seemed ok even after we stretched/secured the fence on the first 250 ft. Think I'll have a problem long-term? I figure I can always go back and install the 4x4's later if I have a problem.

[jimbrown]

My experience is that it is really hard to put post in after the fence is up. Not room to get the post hole digger tht clost to the fence.

[Bird]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Think I'll have a problem long-term?

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be wrong, of course, but yes, I do think you're going to have a problem.

[jml755]

Bird,
Guess I'll take the extra time and put the 4x4's in now for the rest of the fence-line.
thanks.

[WTA]

You are a lot better than me because I can no longer keep my cool with trespassers. I've been robbed once and had trespassers shoot up my roof. I'm not taking it ever again. We had two neighbors actually shot by "hunters" within one year. One was shot in the head and died by an idiot a mile away trying to shoot a deer in her front yard. The bullet was a very bad miss and went through her kitchen window where she was standing doing the dishes.

That was when we lived on a 400 acre farm in Pa a few years ago. It was very isolated in the mountains.
After 10 years of floating around the seas on a few carriers and a battleship and then 10 more sitting in some real dirt bag parts of the world with the Army I thought I deserved a little peace and quiet. Anyway, In Pa we had trespasser problems almost every day. People were out there shooting, fishing, scaring my animals and putting bullet holes in the house and barn. They were using the road signs or picking a spot on my buildings to sight in their deer rifles was all I could figure. Stupidity any way you look at it though.

My driveway was about 2 miles long and went completely across a section of our property where it dead ended on a river that bordered our property. The local judge and sheriff told me that it was a public road because of that and said I was not allowed to put up a gate or tell people they can't come in. What a crock!!! It was 100% my property and People shooting and endangering my animals would get someone shot in most other states. Also, around here the county will maintain a "public road". Not there in Pa. I had to grade my own road but since I had a good 4x4 I actually let it wash out in several places to keep out some of the idiots.
Several times I put up a chain as a gate on our driveway right before the house and people just drove around it right through my yard. Even when I was out there to confront them. I caught one guy shooting deer out of season on my property and confronted him with a rifle of my own and believe it or not the sheriff got on me about that.
We moved out of frustration right after that.

Now I'm back in Texas where a man has a right to defend his property and if you cross a fence that isn't yours then you are no better than a horse thief in the eyes of the law. For all the faults I can find with this state I sure do love it here.
Due to the nature of my business (working on military weapons for the navy and marines mostly) I am almost always armed here. I carry openly and it's totally within the law. In Pa, I would have been arrested. No matter that I am keeping secure weaponry that really doesn't need to be stolen and find it's way into criminal hands and also protecting my farm and livestock from thieves and predators. You just don't have many rights to self defense in many states any more.

The locals know who I am and what I can do too. Believe it or not, I am the only person on this section of land (about 6 families within a mile of us) that hasn't been robbed lately. All the rest have had home break ins and one was a violent one where the homeowners were hurt pretty bad. It just isn't going to happen here. Criminals think they can take advantage of farm families out in the country but they better pack a lunch before coming here.

Thankfully we have great neighbors here too and we all watch out for each other. One of my neighbors the other day came rushing over to my place because he saw a strange car in my driveway. My truck was in the garage so he didn't think I was home but I think he was a bout to beat someone senseless if I hadn't come out when I did. It was just another neighbors car who I was boarding a horse for. He was just here to check on his horse.
They recognized each other luckily though. Still it's a good thing to have neighbors watching each others backs. We need all the help we can get living out in the country.

[Pat]

WTA, There are idiots everywhere. We had people with their kids climbing a locked gate to go fishing on our property (my mom's back yard) years after we bought it. When confronted they said they were grandfathered in because the previous owner let them. Once upon a time in Oklahoma (and lots of other places) people used to be a lot more lax about where they would hunt and fish but this was more rural folks sharing with other rural folks. Now it seems like a few idiots from the city expect to be able to go anywhere in "the country" and run wild with no accountability. Unfortunately some of them have moved to the country and feel like they own it all.

Then there are the folks who ALWAYS hunted and or fished the area and now YOU are in their way and they get indignant and resort to vandalism and bad manners to try to get even in their childish way.

Hooray for TEXAS. If you cross a fence to get on property you don't own you are trespassing. In Oklahoma the land owner is required to post his land in accordance with the statutes regarding sinage before someone is trespassing. I figure our law assumes everyone is so dumb they don't know that a piece of land is not theirs unless there is a sign. This is something that many members of the cattlemen's association would like to see changed. Putting up a sign is just providing a free target to the idiots.

The sign I'd like to put up would read, "Caution, severe tire damage possible, your tire, my rifle."

Sensitive folks often put up signs claiming the land is leased for hunting as that is supposed to "sit" better with the "sportsmen" than a no hunting sign. I suppose it might give grounds for a civil suit based on the perceived loss of value due to trespass and poaching disturbing the hunting prospects for the person leasing it.

Trespassing to get to something to steal and then having to cut a lock or chain or break in to steal should be such a definite and NON-ACCIDENTAL act as to justify, at the owners discretion, the use of lethal force to stop the illegal act irrespective of whether or not the owner was in a life threatening situation. Stated simply, the land owner should be able to shoot a thief and the only reason for intervention after the fact by law enforcement is to gather the facts for a formal report. There should not be any provision under the law to have the means of arresting the shooter for shooting a thief or would be thief in the commission of a crime. Imminent danger to one's own life should not be a prerequisite. Why are we so worried about the "civil liberties" of a felon? Do we need more of them on the streets or crowding the jails. Why does society need to keep more thieves around?

The laws on the books now force law abiding folks to "sweeten"
their story with flights of fancy regarding feeling their life was threatened and such. dragging the body into their house or whatever. This is total nonsense. If someone breaks and enters or cuts locks or chains to steal, there is no doubt that they were committing a crime against the owner and should be stopped by whatever means the owner chooses, guns, dogs, axe, or whatever.

Bleeding hearts will cry over the missed opportunity to salvage the culprit through rehabilitation but we have better ways to invest time and money doing good works for poor unfortunate folks who aren't criminals.

Pat

[WTA]

I just found out that on our family farm that I am in the process of gaining I have to put a purple paint mark no more than every 100 feet plus no trespassing signs. They aren't considered trespassing unless those marks are there. That's Arkansas for ya! I think with a law like that the government really must feel the people are too stupid to know better. I know for a fact people have been trespassing there and hunting illegally. I plan a trip up there to start clearing one of the pastures right in the middle of deer season too. I sure hope I don't catch anyone. Given the fact that the house on that farm is now unusable due to vandalism and nearly all the old farm equipment has been stolen I won't be taking too kindly to anyone on the property.

[egon]

Think of Norway fellows! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

In nova Scotia one can follow creeks and rivers through private land to fish. Which is a good thing in my mind. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pat]

a good thing in my mind

Depends! How far from the water are you allowed to wander? What if there are tall fences? Do you have the right to climb on them? What if there is a pond along the creek with water flowing in one end and out the other. Are you then OK to fish in the stocked pond and take someones bought and paid for fish?

The concept is good to a point but I see trouble a brewin' in some instances.

Pat

[egon]

Pat, a stocked pond would have to be isolated from any natural flowing water to prevent the escape of unwanted species. Never heard of any problems here. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]