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I am looking to start a tree farm in containers to resale to lanscapers etc...
I want an inventory of 10,000 - 40,000
I want to start from seedlings and plant in 1, 3, 5, 10 and 20 gallon containers
Oaks (Red, Live, Sawtooth, etc...), Bradford Pears, Maples etc...
Should I look for an existing tree nursery? Or just Buy/Lease 10-30 acres?
I am in Midlothian, Texas just south of Dallas/ Ft Worth...
Any advice?
I don't know how you'd go about it. I don't think there's a whole lot of margin in the product and leasing would just cut into what little there is. One question though, what are you doing about water? Container plants need a good supply water.
I bought a 8' tall Shumardi Oak the other year (B&B, not container). It cost me $90.00 (this included the tree and the guy coming to my house and planting it in my north Texas clay). A heck of a bargain. I would have payed him that just to did the hole [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .
I don't know how the guy could make a profit at that price? I was so excited, I was planning on having him plant 4 - 5 more this year. When I went to his nursery, I found out he went out of business. I guess that answered my question about the kind of profit he was making.
My basic business plan looks like this...
1st year Start 15,000 Seedlings (Mixed)... Harvest 0
2nd year Start 20,000 Seedlings (Mixed)... Harvest 5 - 10,000
3rd year Start 30,000 Seedlings (Mixed)... Harvest 10-20,000
Each year after that, Start 30,000 Seedlings, Harvest 30,000
I have funds to live on for 18 months...
Sales would consisit of a mix of sizes to mostly large Distributers, and landscapers.... any stock not sold wold be moved to a larger container for next years sales.
I have a local guy to deliver and plant ( At customer expense) if customer needs that service as well...
Prices
3 gal - $10
5 gal - $15
10 gal - $30
15 gal -$45
20 gal -$60
40 gal- 200 gal varies
Water comes from a well
I already have the contacts for sales contracts as soon as I can get my inventory....
With this price structure, It would take 3 years to realize maximum cash flow....
Inventory startup cost would run about $6,000
I don't know about fertilizer, etc...
I was hoping to use as much manure from local Ag barn as posible to mix in with my planting mix...
I have one guy I talked to that will lease me 10 acres of his pasture for $100 per year if I will pay for the well operating expenses for the water that he uses for his cows, About $300- $500 per year....
He has a 3000 gallon tank I can tap into for watering (filled by the well pump)
I was hoping to find a grower that was getting out and I could buy his assests etc... Found one (too far away), but still looking
Okay,... Take your best shots...
I don't see any problem. Good luck with your venture.
Do you think it is a workable plan?
What might keep me from making it work??
I am a little nervous about trying to completly survive on trees etc...
Do you know of anyone selling their farm in our area?
I used to be a certified arborist and nurseryman back in my college days. My only concern is doing everything as containers. It becomes pretty labor intensive. Seedlings, Pots, soil, mulch, irrigation, insect control, disease control, mortality rate etc. If you lose irrigation for a day or two, your cooked in the July/August heat. The container grown stock does get the higher prices and is a better product.
Why don't you go into landscaping and lawn maintenance along with the nursery venture. It'd help with the cash flow and allow you to sell some stock at or near retail prices. I think your plan's achievable, but I'm not sure I'd stake a living on it until I saw the numbers after a few harvests.
I'd contact the county ag extension and see what information they have. They may have some low interest loans available for the ag industry.
I also am thinking about starting a tree farm. I am currently in the experimentation stage and am going to grow trees in Rootmaker products using the Whitcomb System.
This spring I currently have 7 Rootmaker trays of 32-cells growing trees from seed at my house. I have Silver Maple, Green Ash, and Black Walnut. These will stay in these trays until around July 1, when I will transplant them into 5" knit bags placed in cinder blocks. The trays and bags have holes in them to allow air pruning of the roots which causes root branching, hence more roots being generated.
Then, in the fall, these 5" knit bagged trees will be transplanted into the ground into a 14" knit bag. This size bag will be the correct size to grow trees up to 2" in caliper. The beauty of this system is that it creates trees with excellent roots and also the ability to harvest without losing most of the roots that happen when using a tree spade.
I am in the process of installing a submersible well using a portable generator, for I don't have electric on my property. I will water using overhead mist spray heads for the trees in the cinder blocks and drip line for the trees that will be planted in bags in the ground. Once the trees are in the ground, they need less water than if I grew them in containers.
I have yet to determine who my customers will be -- I haven't talked to any nursery owners, landscapers, etc. yet. Right now I am in the experimentation phase to determine the mechanics involved in producing a marketable tree.
We planned do several of the things you suggested...
Thanks for reaffirming that.... I mentioned your post to my wife and business partner
She worries about us being spread too thin...
I hope to keep our expenses in check and maybe even self sustained...(too much to hope for???)
Thanks for your ideas…. So much experience on a list like this, I would be a fool to ignore it…
I saw yesterday a report where growing trees in Texas for landscaping etc… is a $254,000,000 a year business…..
Maybe money does grow on trees??? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Thanks again
I read some of the research from your post... (to grow trees in Rootmaker products using the Whitcomb System)
Has any one else heard of this stuff?
Is it feasable for a lage scale operation?
Which of their products would I use?? And How would I do it?
Rootmaker's biggest customer is Rennerwood Tree Farm. They mainly sell plugs at about .99 each. They sell over 1 million plugs a year!
Another grower using Rootmaker Products is Possibility Place Nursery.
There products provide many different ways to grow trees (container, Pot-in-Pot, field, etc). I think this produces the best root system and grows trees faster than conventional field or container planting.
Keep us posted on your venture, and I'll do the same.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I have one guy I talked to that will lease me 10 acres of his pasture
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Is this 10 acres fenced? You're not planning on "sharing" the land with the cattle, are you?
No.... [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
He has a back section with a gate I can close and lock up...
Otherwise I think the cows would see my trees and think SNACK!! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Have you had experience with a venture of this magnitude? How long will your lease be with the rancher? Will either party be able to get out of the lease, within a certain period of time? Will the lease payment be based on your gross return (i.e. when the money starts coming in)? Do you have a plan to control theft (I see similar nursery farms with extensive security fence and alarms, as these potted trees are valuable and easily get 'legs' at night)?
I wish you luck, as I like to see adventuresome people, and a good business is healthy for our economy. I also think your wife may have good reason to be nervous at this point. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
The owner (old family friend) said I could have a 10 year lease and I could cancel my end any time with 60 days notice.
He would give me the right to buy those acres at the end of the lease as long as I keep up my end. Plus I would have first right to buy if he wanted to sell, (Set price of $30,000) including the well on "my" property A new owner would have to sink his own well.
It is pretty secluded... I talked to a security guy, and he told me about these deer feeder cams that work at night and one model that will page you with any activity ...
My lease payment will be due first of every year...($100.00 per years, small expense) and well expenses would be due monthly. He said he would pay the well expenses for the first this year to help me get started...
He is independantly wealthy and ony raises cows as a hobby and to get out of the house once in a while...
The money is not as big of a deal to him as just trying to help someone else to get started...
I have been looking at tree shovels and spades that go on a tractor or a Bobcat (skid steer)... attached
Has anyone ever used one like this?
Or a regular tree spade?
What about the difference between a bobcat and a regular tractor?
I can get a John Deere 40hp for about $12,000 with a front end loader and brush-hog ....?
Frontend loader? $15-$20k...
When I worked at a nursery, they used tree spades mounted on Bobcats (actually Case Uniloaders). I think they're more manuverable in the rows and typically have a good lift capacity versus their size. In reality having both a skid steer and a tractor would be nice. If you can only afford one or the other, I'd probably take the tractor first.
I have a tree shovel (spade) for my Bobcat. It works fine on smaller trees (less than 1.5" caliper), but I have since given up on the idea of planting trees in the field to be later removed with a spade, but rather using the Rootmaker bags, and thus will pull them out with a strap and retain almost all of the roots.
I have used that spade for digging trenches more than digging trees, so far.
<font color="blue">Otherwise I think the cows would see my trees and think SNACK!! </font color>
Yep! [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
One other thing to worry about is that even if you can keep the cattle out, you will have a hard time with the deer who may be interested in your plantings. Not sure what trees are palatible to those critters, but do know that they just about destroyed a friends peach and apple orchard when he first planted his trees (small). He had to resort to high fence to keep them away. Might want to talk to a TPWD biologist to see what they think of the trees you're going to be planting and if you will have any trouble with deer.
First Good Luck, I am 1 year into starting a tree farm. I dabbled for a couple of years before I went in. I still work full time though. I live in your area just south of Sherman. I do like it. There were a couple of things I learned on the fly I will try to give you what little I learned.
I grow Oaks (Live, red, ect....) & red cedars, & Leyland Cyprus trees. Go talk to the people you are selling the trees to or going to & ask if you can buy his old containers this will save MAJOR $$$$$. If they will not then start calling nurseries. Just make sure you clean them out before you use them.
Next make sure you get into drip irrigation. This is some money up front but will save a lot over time. Time is needed to get the drip system going. When you make the individual lines to each tree make sure you make them longer than you need so when that tree needs to move and another moved in you will not have to redo the line.
The nice thing about a drip line is that you can get an inline fertilizer. Just turn it on/off major time saver here.
Next thing is to consider weeds in the pots and around them. I created an area with the greenhouse landscape fabric (had to order it form a greenhouse supplier) and put Pea gravel on top of it to help protect it more from rips. Weeds are a big waist of time. Put mulch in the pots to keep them away.
You can get free mulch if you buy a chipper (cheap old one) and ask some people in your area with a lot of trees that you want to clean up some dead brush in your area. Do this only if you know the tree did not die from a disease. Or get it delivered in bulk from a sand/gravel place.
Soil you use – this is a heated topic – everyone will give you there advice of what to use, but I will say you get what you pay for (usually) But some testing I did I do have good luck with half sandy loam & half compost (finished compost). But will I go to it???? Research this!!!
Labor – this is a big one – like someone said – repotting is a lengthy process, as I only have night’s weekends for now (hopefully).
Go ask someone if you do not know how to prune the trees you are growing. My wife learned & taught me, as a bad looking tree will be planted at your land and not sold!!
Find a good cheap supplier of bamboo for stacking, or grow yours. In doing this invest in a good tree ribbon tier, as this will save you time. If you need help finding one I can find one online & send a link.
Hope this helps as I am learning also. I will help if I can.
My background is a Professional Tree Buyer for 8 years now, a BS in horticulture and a passion for trees. I have a few comments.....
First a Container grown tree is inferior to a B&B tree in 9 out of 10 cases given both are a top quality outfit. However there is a place for the container tree farms.
First being in Texas you are slightly out of my market. I buy typically from the Carolina's, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, TN. I do get stuff from Texas, but not as often as my Tree buddies (growers) send things that way.
The tree market has been pretty cut throat for the last three years on this side of the country a drop in almost 65% of the market value on many trees. The container prices you listed are fairly reasonable to within the limits of what I would spend.
A few things that I have seen. Mobile home stakes. Not sure what the are used for on mobile homes, but I know a container grower that uses them to keep his trees in the big cans from blowing over.
Drip Irrigation is good, but if a head clogs and you dont catch it kiss that tree goodbye. Probably a good option for a startup farm, but you may want to keep in mind a sprinkler irrigation system that has a 100% run off capture rate into a retention pond. Wight's Monrovia in lower Georgia has industry leading retention pond that cleans the nitrates and other chemicals from the water so that it can be returned back to the enviroment when the rain brings to much water. Very interesting. Since they have done it in conjunction with the EPA and Government I am sure they would talk to you about it. If interested I can find you a contact.
I have seen people use a rubber mulch on the top of the pot for weeds. That way you pull it before you ship and slap it on the next tree.
Most of the time growers are friends in these parts. I am sure you will find some that are willing to give some advice. Join ANLA and attend a local trade show. Wow the things you will find and see your first time to a major Nursery Trade Show. Also you may want to consider buying American Standards for Nursery Stock ANSI Z60.1-1996. While it is not an answer all type book, it does provide some basic technical data that some particular buyers will hold as a minimum.
The biggest thing I can stress, is product diversity. I have seen many farms struggle, and while many of your more diverse product may not sell as fast it helps some buyers fill out an order. (example: Quite often I am buying 6 Chioanthus. I cant ship just six trees. So I will look for a grower that has my Chioanthus and then I order the 50 Acer, or 50 Quercus that I may need plus the Chioanthus to make a truck for shipping.)
In addition the cycles come and go. What is hot right now, will 80% of the time be not in 2 years, and what is a glutton right now is gone soon thereafter. Two Years ago I was buying 100 River Birch at a time 24' in height for $80.00. Right now they are few and far between. Dont get on the backside of this curve. If you are reacting to a market trend typically you are to late. Becuase as you know a tree doesnt grow in 6 or nine months.
Most importantly good luck,
Have fun with the Hard Work!
<font color="blue"> Also you may want to consider buying American Standards for Nursery Stock ANSI Z60.1-1996. </font color>
You can get the 2004 version online for free in PDF.
ANLA Standard Z60.1-2004
meledward23: Do you have any opinions on trees grown with RootMaker products? In particular the knit fabric bags in the field.
B&B trees lose so much of their root structure when dug out of the ground, where-as the rootbags retain a very high percentage of the roots, and have nearly 100% success when transplanting.
<font color="blue"> Two Years ago I was buying 100 River Birch at a time 24' in height for $80.00. </font color>
I would think that would be a tree of more than 4" caliper. $80? That can't be the norm for a typical 4" caliper tree. Was it that low in price because of the glutton of supply? Wouldn't a Quercus of 4" have a wholesale price over $200?
<font color="blue"> Most of the time growers are friends in these parts. </font color>
Your profile is blank, so I'm not sure what "these parts" mean.
I'll email you some price info.
As far as the River Birch, exactly $80 is probably about the cost to have dug the tree and load it. There were so many trees on the Market that growers were just trying to cover the cost of moving the trees off their property instead of dozing them. Now, I have a hard time finding that tree and it's price is skyrocketing.
RootMaker bags. Unless there have been improvements in them, we had very bad experiences with them 10-12 years ago. Personally I would look at a pot in pot system if you want to do in ground but removable system.
Trees dug B&B loose part of their root system. It is a good pruning for them in most cases. I buy from one grower that prune the roots of his B&B trees two or three times during it's growing on his farm. Even my most inept foreman has a hard time killing one of these trees.
In short I would say the following without writing a thesis:
B&B is better for the long term health of a tree, for a better survival rate when done correctly.
Containers are cheaper, easier to install, and make the quick buck easier.
Both are very viable and neither market should be completely neglected.
As a simple example Between yesterday and today I have had 97 trees delivered. 47 were Container grown.
Profile Updated:
These Parts - Really referring to the Growers in SC, GA, TN
BTW,
When I buy B&B I expect a 100% success rate as well. In fact one grower from which I buy knows that my success rate is so high he has never questioned a warranty request. And in those rare events it is for one out of two hundred + trees.
Where are you located? My Mom and dad live in Frisco
I would like to come and see your place ...
Where do you get your containers?
Is there a market for anything smaller than 10 Gallon?
Do you wholesale only?
thanks for your input...
<font color="blue"> RootMaker bags. Unless there have been improvements in them, we had very bad experiences with them 10-12 years ago. </font color>
You are not thinking of the same company -- RootMaker Products has not been around that long.