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Just wondering
Ok, never professed on being a gardener but this AM as I was shoveling horse manure, I thought, "It's got to be a use for this stuff!" So I've been thinking about trying to set up a square foot type garden and was wondering what to order from dirt man if I didn't use the hay mulch that was discussed in one of the other threads about potatoes! So is there a way to use the horse manure compost! I've been packing that stuff into the barn to a tune of 75/100 dollars a month in 50 lb bags and wheelbarrowing out in piles for several years! 2/3 times a year I'll burn it! The compost sure looks good! Ok Ok, would this stuff be to hot for garden! any suggestions!
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Re: Just wondering
Go for it [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Egon
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Re: Just wondering
I wasn't sure from your comments if yu wanted to use it raw or composted. If you compost it well the results is humus and it will be OK in a big way. The fresh variety is best used in moderation.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
Sorry about not making myself clear, I'm good at that! Anyway, I pile it up outside and let it set & rot! It has a small amount of hay mixed, when I shovel into it, it looks great! Several years ago, a couple of ole men would come by and get piles(of horse manure) for worm beds?? They quite coming thou!
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Re: Just wondering
I just tilled 2" of aged horse manure into my vegetable garden. The stuff is priceless, you'll get strawberries as big as soccer balls. Well not quite.... but you get the idea.
The key is that it has to be aged to leach the salts from the urine and composted to kill the weed seeds.
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Re: Just wondering
roho, Don't hear me, I can shout you very much! I wish I had a big pile of that stuff but have no convenient way to get it as herd densities arouind here turn manure collection into an easter egg hunt rather than a front end loader exercise.
For what it is worth... Sometimes one big pile will work faster and better than two or more smaller ones. The internal temp will rise more in a big pile (insulated by the thickness). This kills more weed seeds making better compost. Actually there are desired internal temps that cautious composters shoot for using thermometers.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
I have a question on this......does it have to be only manure or is it ok to have wood shavings mixed in?
I a pile of mixed shavings and manure that is getting really big since I quit spreading it late last fall. I tried to give some to a neighbor who is a gardener but he said that regardless of how long its been sitting there the wood shavings make it too hot and, if he mixed it, the decaying wood pulls all the nitrogen out of the soil.
I would sure like to sell some of this off when I get this much piled up.
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Just wondering
Mark, many times I've read about wood chips in a garden pulling nitrogen from the soil; so many times, in fact, that I guess it's true. But if it's true, my soil sure must have had lots of nitrogen because I tilled in many loads of uncomposted wood chips in my garden. They'd disappear within a year and no on in the area had a better garden than I did. Of course, I did have some cow manure and some rabbit manure and some of the "mushroom soil" from a mushroom farm that I also tilled in.
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Re: Just wondering
Thanks Bird. I guess that’s that……
My gardening neighbor was kind enough, however, to tell me that if I picked all the manure out of the shavings and composted that for him, he would take that part off my hands. Not surprisingly I turned him down.
By the way…..I am going to try to grow some Heirloom tomatoes this year because I like fresh fruits and vegetables and I was given about a dozen different types of seeds to try. How do you recommend I start them? Can I just put them into the garden or do I need to start them in separate little pots?
I am not a good gardener and don’t have much free time to tend a garden but I don’t want to waste a bunch of seeds either.
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Just wondering
A Google search on "compost wood shavings" yields several interesting hits. Among them are:
http://www.msue.msu.edu/misanet/Composting/profile4.htm
The above was a good one.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/p...ry/012565.html
http://www.hdra.org.uk/organicgardening/compost_3.htm
http://www.gerrybuilt.com/compost.html
and on and on and on...
Composting, while not difficult requires some study/experience to get optimal results. Lots of good resources on the web. You ned to learn about your "browns" and "greens" temperature control, and more.
To a degree your neighbor was right, wood chips/sawdust will ""use up" available soil nitrogen but if it is composted first that is not the case. Wood chips take longer than many other feedstocks to properly compost.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
Mark, my grandfather used to start tomato plants from seed in the little pots or trays similar to what the nurseries use. But he did it indoors, in his walk-in basement with windows on the east side, as well as artificial lights, because even in Oklahoma they needed to be started well before the weather turned warm enough to have young plants outside. Personally, I've had no experience with that method; I simply bought the tomato plants, usually 4" to 6" tall, at a local nursery in the area.
I guess the one thing I did differently from a lot of people was the number of times I tilled my garden. After every rain, as soon as it was dry enough, I tilled it again; year round. When it was planted, I tilled between the rows, and during the non-growing season, I tilled the whole garden.
I did get a really big surprise once. Every Fall, when I was through with the garden, even though some things might still be producing a bit, I mowed all the remaining plants with the brush hog, then tilled them in. And one winter, I looked out the window and saw a huge area of "grass" in the garden that hadn't been there a few days before. I told my wife I couldn't imagine how that much grass got there that fast. So I went out for a closer look and found that it was thousands of tiny tomato plants. I knew another freeze would kill them anyway, so I promptly tilled them under.
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Re: Just wondering
What about using sawdust/shavings as mulch?? I have been spreading fairly fresh sawdust to control weeds and conserve water...but maybe the trade off of nitrogen usage is not worth it and I should use another mulch? The horse manure we use is very well composted...has a mixture of sawdust/shavings in it(that's our horse's bedding) but since it's so well composted I guess we are safe?
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Re: Just wondering
Muncybob, Sawdust and wood chips will compost and then are just fine but they take longer, especially the chips (larger = slower) so the wood in the manure can easily not be composted when the manure is. If you compost it long enough the wood will compost too.
Using really course wood chips or bark for a top cover isn't much of a problem since the surface area is so low for the quantity of chips. The "shredded" wood is OK too as it also has a low surface to volume ratio and therefore reacts slowly. The really course stuff uses nitrogen a lot slower and doesn't present much or any problem except certain species may contain chemicals that are harmful too or retard others. I know this exists but don't know much about which ones do what to which others. If well composted I don't think that is as much of a concern.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
Thanks Pat.
I actually went out to a local University of CA website and found some good info as well. It seems like a lot more of a science than I first started. The good news, I think, is that I moved part of my evergrowing manure pile and found that it seems to be doing, what I think are, many of the right things all by itself. Hopefully that means I can screw it up too badly with the limited time I have.
Bird,
Good story on the tomatoe plants [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I will have to start some of those plants pretty soon as we are headed for low 80's. Pretty soon the ground is going to warm up and dry out.
Thanks for the help all.
Mark
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Re: Just wondering
LOW 80's?????
MARK...
I promise I won't come over unannounced for dinner if you tell me where you are located. Approximately is fine. I am approximately at +35, +97
That is 35 degrees north laltitude and 97 degrees west longitude, +/- 3 to 4 miles.
By the way, aren't these longer days just wonderful?
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
When using wood chips in the garden adding nitrogen fertilizer works well.
I start my seedlings in a plastic sandwhich bag filled with purchased manure and placed in can. The top of the bag is tied shut so everything stays moist for germination. After germination the plastic bag is untied . Makes for easy watering and a deep set of roots.
Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
Egon, Again, you are right. I have been working a lot of Eastern Red Cedar (actually juniper) and gave a friend aboiut 200 gallons of wood chips of varying size and thickness. As he wanted to spread it over his garden I admonished him to include some high nitrogen fertilizer to make up the deficit they would cause.
The local Asplund (sp?) tree trimming/chipping contractors can course shred trees which decreases the surface area tremendously compared to really fine chips and sawdust so that reduces the rate of nitrogen depletiion when used as a soil ammendment. It composts/decomposes really slowly.
[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: Just wondering
I think horse manure would be good. I climbed over the fence next to me and got some cow manure and soaked it in water that i watered my tomatoes with . I had the best tomatoes I have ever had.. I do not plan on using comerical fertilizer this year.Go organic....Also my city where I live, gathers up all the leaves from the neiborhood and carries it where it is made into mulch. and you can drive your truck over and they load it for you. It is so rich and dark..