What to do with all the mess

We recently took over the family ranch that my grandpa homesteaded almost 100 years ago. My problem is that it is such a mess. They never threw anything away and it's mostly junk, so I know an auction wouldn't work (already had an auctioneer take a look). The buildings (barn, houses, shop, etc) are in such disrepair that we have to tear them all down. Cows destroyed the vegitation by overgrazing the 500 acres with 100 cow/calf pairs for 20 years (thanks to the previous owners). It's really quite embarrassing. I let the ground rest last year, but this year there is a ton of grass, but the weeds are horrible. I had a guy go spray, so now my hay fields look good, but the rest of it is still horrible. We only have 4-H stock on the place, about 20 cats and 500 gofers, skunks, raccoons, and other pests. We shoot the pests and poison, but it doesn't seem to touch it. We have taken some advice from relatives, but they helped with the process of letting the place go so bad, so I would like some advice from some people who have succeeded at this. We do allow trespass fee hunts to help with some costs, but it really doesn't touch it. I would also like to know when we should introduce livestock again and what to bring in. I really would like something that brings in a proffit or at least something I could handle that would benefit our family with nourishment. My husband and I both work, so we can't have a lot of anything anyway. I thought about Dexters, but I don't know how profitable they would be in Northwest Colorado and how expensive they are to buy. I am very overwhelmed and discouraged. HELP! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Stephanie

I would get some advice from your local county extension office. Ask for a soil analysis kit too. This will give you an idea of how well or poorly your pastures are doing. Some of your local 4-H people may have an idea too. I think there is more money in boarding horses or U-Pick than other operations. I thought about doing a small cow-calf operation, but most of the local ranchers tell me it is cheaper to buy steak at the store.

Good luck,

Joe

Thanks Joe. I never thought about horses. I did think about u pick, but our growing season up here is very short unless I look into greenhouses. Do you know of any good greenhouse distributors? I work next door to our county agent and I didn't even think about that. I guess sometimes talking out the frustration with someone really does help. I am so focused on the problem that it's hard to see an answer even when it may be right in front of you (or next door [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ) Thanks! Just getting it out there really makes me feel a lot better. I'll let you know how things progress!

Just wondering what shape the fences are in?

Is grazing avalabe year round or must you feed livestock during the winter?

What do the people around you use their land for?

Egon

Hello pearcefamilyco, well you had mentioned a big mess to clean up! Now if that's part of the problem, where it is permitted, tearing down, burning, and buring is where I'd start. If YOU bury anything, remember that in about 20 yrs or so it will resurface unless you make provisions! Also remember the ole saying, One mans trash is another mans treasure! ALL the junk and things you want tore down, offer it free for hauling off!
Now raising animals & pick U'r own type of things, U'r better off just hobby farming to start with and if YOU have a nack for it, ease into it later on! Now on boarding horse, it can be a profitable operating on that much land, if YOU are near a large town! and have clientele but YOU will need barns with stalls and secure areas for feed and hay! If that interests YOU, there are several folks on site that have done this including myself! We all can give our advise! Hope this helped some!!!! BTW, ALL other advise was great, don't evpect to make a living off the land right now, best you can hope for is maybe pay some of the taxes and break even!!! But isn't that about all we do anyway!hehehe

The fences are ok. They are mostly 4 barbs and we (my dad, husband, son, and I) have kept up on those because of all the cows my uncle ran. The elk and deer have a tendancy to run them down so we keep up with that often.

The other people around raise cattle and sheep but they are all very well off with thousands of acres under them. Down the road about 10 miles is an Elk ranch and huge guide and outfitting, fishing, 4-wheeling guest ranch. They have their own roping arenas, etc.

I would get more advice from neighbors, but my uncle lost the ranch in forclosure and that's where I picked it up. However, he's told everyone that he gave it to me and I sold all his cows and I kicked him off, so most of the neighbors think very little of me. Most of the neighbors grew up there and they are all in their 60's and 70's and are a pretty tight knit group.

For the record, I didn't kick my uncle off the ranch. I asked him to move for a while and we could build a better house for him (because there was no plumbing and it was falling in). He made the decision to not come back. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

We get a lot of snow, so we do have to feed in the winter. We only have about 2 months of summer, 7 months of winter and 3 months of muddy sledding.

We have dug a huge pit and have burned and burried 5 14x70 trailer houses that were about 30 years old or more. We buried them on a part of the field we can't really grow anything on. We just have so much more to do. We have had people haul off a lot. Any suggestions on all the pests?

2 months of summer -- feed the rest of the year -- get serious with the matematics and decide if it is an expensive pastime or just a money pit.

Egon

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most of the neighbors think very little of me.



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Do not fear ; the neighbours will know more about the situation than you think.

Egon

Hey I love the varmints as much as the next guy and have reached the age that killing to be killing is way past! Now that didn't sound as I meant it! I really don't kill for the fun of it! But U'r at a position where U need to thin out cats, coons, skunks &amp; any other varmints that's over populating! Don't feel bad about it, just get a good varmint rifle and practice! Well with property the way it was under UNK's leadership U'r probably better off without him anyway and he's probably better off away from the place and I wouldn't worry what the neighbors thought until I was asked about what happened! Then I'd straighten 'em out!

Believe me, we do shoot! We go nowhere out there without a .22 pistol. My son went to the state 4-H shoot last year and our team came in 2nd. He practices plenty. It was a pretty mild winter and I think that's why we are so overpopulated this summer. But we do shoot and poison. I haven't tried traps yet. They seem to be expensive for the amount they catch.

To Egon, right now it is a money trap, I know. I don't feed from about late March to October. For the few 4-H cows, sheep and horses I have there is enough grass then even though it is awfully muddy. It does dry up and get really hot July and August. This spring was different. It has rained a lot, but the air is very dry. The grass has taken off and I hope to get about 40 ton of hay off the dry land fields.

I grew up out at the ranch. It is where I learned to ride my horse by being handed a bridle and a bucket of oats at 5 and being told to figure it out (luckily I had the best horse in the world and he stood there for 2 hours while I dumped the oats, stood on the bucket and figured out how the bridle went on - of course after I pulled myself on his back, he didn't move either until he was ready) It's where we branded (usually several times a year because my uncle let the bulls run with the cows all year). It's where my grandma taught me how to make bread. I have so many firsts in my life happen there from learning how to drive, to teaching my kids the same things. It may be a money pit right now, but the memories are priceless. Now my new first will be to learn how to be good at ranching or hobby farming or just making it a home. We owe less on it than most people pay for a house in our town. Of course we have a single wide trailer to live in until we can afford to build a house, but we still don't owe that much comparatively.

The comments you guys have made (especially about my uncle) have helped me tremendously. Even Egon's "get serious with the mathematics" comment made me really think about my options for out there. Reading all the other discussions has helped too. I really like this place. It's the most I've learned in a while. It's like a little community and I feel comfortable here. Thanks guys!
[img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Enjoy the ranch. It will be worth ever penny. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon

My day job is my life, my country home is my love.

After I bought my small farm 2 years ago, I started rebuilding the place. No one is at fault. The lady I bought it from was alone, over 80 years old. Maybe a little peculiar but aren't we all???

I did the only thing that cityfolk could imagine: dumpsters. At first my gal and I were amazed at the sheer volume. Then we stopped counting after 12 tons of junk was hauled off. Every ounce of the 12 tons was torn down and loaded into that dumpster by our very two hands.

We take a lot of pride in our work. The place continues to improve with each passing season. Our neighbors like us because we are improving the area - which improves the value of their places as well.

Now we have decided to build a new house on the parcel. You can see that we have really bonded with it!

Enjoy your home. Take your time and don't worry that it doesn't get finished all at once. Pick the large eyesores first, as priority, then just work down the list.

You will be happy that you did.

Martin

Thanks Martin! That was just what I needed to hear!

Stephanie

Our place in the country isn't anywhere near the size of yours, but the same principle applies. Pick the worst problem that you need to solve and deal with it, then move on down the list.

Don't worry about how long the list is because you will never reach the end of it on a country property anyhow, you just get to the point where you move from fixing problems and getting rid of the old junk/mess to where you are doing improvements and making it into the propery you want it to be.

I agree with the other posters, I am sure your neighbors know that your uncle was foreclosed on. There are very few secrets in rural areas where everybody knows everybody else and their business. Haha.

How about introducing some predators, maybe some great pyrenese dogs that are pets/guard dogs/rodent control? Keep in mind as you remove the junk/trash/nesting, habitat , food sources for the vermin they will move on some as well.

If you do get some dogs to help, I would stop trying to poison the vermin. That way the dogs don't get poisoned by accident somehow.

As far as turning the place into a profitable enterprise, keep in mind don't plant anything or buy your first animal until you know who and where your market is. Do a spreadsheet, figure your costs to produce the product, find out what you can sell it for, etc. The spread sheet doesn't have to be real complex, just list expenses and income for whatever it is and see is you can make money on it.

Also, keep in mind that anything that has 'organic' in it will sell for a lot more money as long as you can find an outlet for you that isn't to far away to make it profitable. Organic beef cattle maybe a thing to look into for you, if there is such a thing.

We have some Dexters, we really enjoy them. But, Dexters are more of a marketing cow than a commercial cow. You can't just take them to the sale barn as folks won't bid on them as they think they are runts or something ( from what I have read anyhow ). You have to sell them via marketing them on the internet, classifieds etc, you will be selling them to folks who want more the smaller homestead cattle. Which is what I hope to be doing myself in a few years once I build our herd a bit

[img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Good luck, I know it is just brutal hard work cleaning up and fixing up but as it sounds you got the place for a good price, I am sure you can make it work.

Oh and on the cleanup, remember metal prices are real high, you might save all the metal stuff in a seperate pile and take it to a recycler. I see old farm trucks every day hauling stuff into Kansas City to take advantage of the higher prices being paid for scrap metal. You might find somebody who will come out and pick it up and pay you for it as well.

Otherwise, burn whatever will burn and if you do bury stuff, bury it deep so it won't get frost heaved back up in a few years.

Thank you so much on all your advice and encouragement. This is the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I never thought about the dogs before for the pests. We have some of them at our animal shelter. I may have to go get one. I am in much better spirits about the whole thing now that I have heard so much about other people and that it will take time. It was just so frustrating when you have in your head what you want it to be and it doesn't seem to be getting there. Also, the marketing aspect was very helpful. I really need to do some research. Thanks for the info on the dexters too. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

pearcefamilyco, One (perhaps small) money saver is to leave at least as much hay as can be consumed, prior to being buried too deep by snow, standing in the field. It is more cost effective than bailing it and then feeding it. Of course you are way too far north and perhaps get too much snow cover for that to be a big savings.

Another good idea is to meet your extension agent and try to be his new best friend. There is a great source of information well targeted for your specific area. Making nice with the extension agent and his minions (various agronomists etc.) could pay decent dividends and can have the additional benefit of being a back chanel way of communicating "your side of the story" to the community.

A couple well placed, " I sure wish my dear old uncle hadn't decided to pass up the new house as we could use his advice", comments would surely make the rounds. Of course you could also express your regrets as to his incipient alzheimers and need for professional help in ballancing his brain chemistry, "you know, all those delusions about not being wanted as a trusted advisor." Sad but there just isn't anything you can do about it.

Best of luck,

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Well I am just going to offer words of encouragement. What you are doing is looked upon by many as "crazy". I have heard similar words in our situation. Not many people these days think long term, or think of a completely different way to do things. Country living passes them by.

You and your family seem to have that foresight and fortitude to look beyond the day-to-day and reach deep to hold on to something more important. Your family history, your roots, and perhaps a calling. Good for you. All the best.

Plug at it day to day, perhaps hour by hour. Success is in the attempt at trying.

I have made many trips to the dumpster, then my wife got smart. She called up a gentleman who was interested in scrap.
My time on the myriad of other projects was more valuable than running to the scrap-metal dealer. Wise move. We hope to become fast friends in the future.

I have a list exactly 230 line items deep. Some items are quick fixes, "electrical connect out master bedroom", others bode into complexity beyond my reasoning - "Hay". Oh, well.

I hear that "crazy" word popping into my brain. "Crazy", nah...
content is more like it.

-Mike Z. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Definitely make the list and prioritize it. Add a couple of notes to each item as to estimated cost and estimated time. I have been working on my 30 item list for about 2 years now, and as each item is crossed off, my wife adds another. By having the time cost estimates, if you can't afford or don't have the time to do the top item, you can skip down to the first one that does meet you time/ cost budget. I capped my list at 30 items only because I can't stand the thought of exactly how deep the list actually is.

On the matter of a dog....may I suggest a male dog. They have a habit of continually "marking" their territory. While it will not make the "critters" go away completely, it may help encourage them to shop for alternative living quarters.

It sounds as if you got the right training as a youngster. Trust yourself. You have the right intentions, it will just take time. It's a journey not a destination.

Don't worry about the neighbors, they'll figure it out. Especially when they see where you are going.

Great point Adron! Our list also has the cost estimate attached, sometimes the wife and I consider what we are going to do next and factor the budget in, i.e. "Well let's put off X till next month as it will cost to much right now, we will do Y instead." Where Y is something that takes some effort but is also something we have the tools and materials on hand to do already....fencing repair comes under that.

I have found that fencing is never ever really done, you can always find a spot or two that needs repairing, tightening, improving a creek wash, etc.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the advice. I am starting my list. I will post pictures so you guys can see progress when I get time. I'll also show the views from where our house will be. They are beautiful. My husband and I have greatly appreciated it. We have been mulling around ideas for extra money as well. We have thought about puting in an R.V. park area on part of the acreage. In our area there is a real need for one as the camp grounds are always booked and now we have seasonal construction workers having a hard time finding places to stay. We let our hunters park their trailers at our ranch, but don't have any electric or sewer hookups, so we thought instead of puting up cabins, this would be a cheaper alternative. Any thoughts on that?

I have been talking to our extension office, but they just cut the ag agent position, so I talked with the natural resources guy who gave me companies that can evaluate the property, but for a hefty fee. I also got our neighboring county's ag agent's number and am on a list for him to get back with. We'll see how that goes.

I think the list is really going to help with both a sense of accomplishment and figuring out what we can tackle first. Yes, fencing is continual. Especially with elk and deer.

The scrap metal guy is a good idea. My dad is really interested in that. I just need to make sure he understands that if he wants it, it isn't my job to load it and take it in for him. Not as easy as it sounds.

I haven't gotten a dog yet. We have 4 already that I'm sure would take care of the problem, but with the bait we've laid out, I am worried about letting them loose yet. Maybe next spring.

Well, I will keep you posted and post pictures as soon as I can. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

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The buildings (barn, houses, shop, etc) are in such disrepair that we have to tear them all down.

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What kind of construction? There are companies that PAY for old barns, tear them down for you, and haul the wood away. Then they sell it for a high price to city folks for decorating! There are lots of 'rustic' restaraunts &amp; such being built with old barn wood and metal roofing for paneling.

Hang in there, and remember what Will Rogers said - "Buy land. They aren't making any more of it."

Turn that place around and the neighbors will figure out what really happened.

<font color="blue"> One mans trash is another mans treasure! ALL the junk and things you want tore down, offer it free for hauling off!

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I've gotten rid of a lot of junk over the years by placing it at the foot on my driveway and hanging a sign saying free on it.

A couple of days ago a guy picked up the busted up concrete , 4 old junk space heaters, old pipe, bed frames and rails several scrap electrical panels, etc.,
and 2 old sets of rusted dilapidated trailer steps.
Took everything that was down there.

While the guy was loading it all up my next door neighbor came over and asked me what I was up to.
I told him I was having a yard sale and everything's free. LOL.

Over the years I've gotten rid of old junk hot water tanks worn out appliances, etc., this way.
Why pay the trash man 10 to 15 bucks per item to haul it away when there's people out there who will take it off your hands for free <font color="red"> ????? </font color>

I have an old upright deep freeze that I keep my diesel and gasoline in.
I could have given that thing away at least 10 times in the 12 years it been setting there.
People are always wanting then to use to store things in.

Don't take this wrong but:

I would not recommend horse boarding in itself to anyone. If you already make your living training, breeding, buying and selling then you would already have some infrastructure in place. If not then consider this, do you want to work seven days a week at least part of the day or pay someone to do the work for you? You need to be well versed in animal husbandry so when those emergencies (sickness or injury) happen, you know what to do. You need to provide fresh water 24/7/365, pasture/horse quality hay, grain, worming schedule. There is a lot more. And, consider that the horses are usually easier to deal with than the owners are.

Boarding mostly offsets costs already occoured in a horse operation. It is part of a lifestyle so the extra work and responsiblity are just part of the day. Other than that, you don't have much of a life.

That said, my wife and I care for ~20 horses. I work full time while she is home tending to the horses. I spend all my "free time" maintaining/upgrading the property or cleaning paddocks every few days. I actually don't get to spend as much time with the horses as I would like. There is something about the company of animals that is very satisfying although some people may "turn up their nose at you".

Good luck and don't forget to stop to smell the flowers in your endeavor.

The end of my drive way down by the road is my trash disposal and recycling canter.
Last week I set an old vacuum cleaner down there. It was gone before the day was over.
The other day ago I put an old range hood there it was gone within a couple of days.
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MY FIRST CAR http://chevy.tocmp.com/chevyscrapbook/files/kamp50.jpg
OUR FIRST CAR http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/chev6003.htm
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We are making some progress. We aren't boarding horses, but we are leasing out the place for grazing pasture and focusing on the hunting more. We are SLOWLY cleaning. With steel prices the way they are right now, we are doing well with taking in scrap iron. We have plenty of cars that will go there this summer as well. Hopefully the cows will help with some of the weeds. We did spray last year, but our local extension agent said we should introduce some cattle back in to help clean it up now. I found a guy that is awesome with only 14 pairs to come in and he is responsible for the fence upkeep. It's been great. Hunting was a great success. My 2006 season was booked by the end of January. Things are starting to look up! If someone explains to me how to put pictures in here, I'll put some in.

Stephanie

I figured out the picture thing. It is attached.

Some nice animals there. Glad you're getting it done. Keep up the good work!

Stephanie, From your description of the place, I think you might want to look at ( http://stockmangrassfarmer.net/ )

That is a print newsletter that has great advice and success stories for situations exactly like yours. They also have a bunch of articles online for free. The philosophy may be a little different than what you are used to. They don't say "I'm a dairy farmer" or "I raise horses". They like to say "I'm a grass farmer", and the animals are just a way to improve the grass crop.

Once you put the focus in the quality and sustainability of pasture instead of on the animals, you can make some amazing improvements to your land. It is intensive farming, though, requiring frequent movement of animals among pastures. You may have cows or horses on a pasture for 3 days before moving them. Lots of electric fencing makes dividing up the pasture and moving animals easier.

A neighbor of mine has transformed his 160 acres from an over-grazed, muddy, low-fertility pit into a verdant show place without chemical fertilizer and without intensive plowing or mowing, all through careful pasture management. I'm a believer, but then I'm not the one out moving the animals all the time.

-lopezian

Grass farmers... Exactly the attitude introduced to me by a friend/neighbor who is a cattle producer. Repeating a refrain from a seminar he attended, we cattle producers are actually in the grass farming buisness first and formost. Then depending on the success of our grass farming we can support a varying intensity of our secondary business, cattle raising.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Yes, I agree. We are trying to do the same thing (rotational grazing).

I think of it as being in the grass business, the trick is to find a profitable mechanism to turn the suns energy into money. The method with the least inputs to me is using a cow/calf herd and doing rotational grazing.

Have you thought of goats? The barbed wire won't keep them in, you need net fence for that, but they thrive on weeds and prefer to eat stuff horses and cows turn their noses up at. They are hardy and don't take a lot of hay to maintain in the winter.
Good luck and keep things fun. You've inherited a gold mine! What I'd do for 500 acres!

We are thinking about goats. I am also ordering Guineas to help with the ticks and grasshoppers. and they eat weed seeds. We did clean up a lot this summer. We got rid of 26 rusted cars and another trailer house. I am still saving about 10 cars to put parts on the internet. It's not the most beautiful place in the world yet but it's still coming along. I will try to post more pictures. We had an awesome hunting season and I am booked for 2007 from archery to Late Cow season. That's working out great. I am thinking about building a steel house out there. We currently are living in a trailer. We have a house in town, but if I sell it, we should have enough money to pay cash for a house hopefully. Has anyone built a steel home? Is it something a family could take on?

We can feel your pain and just let it go at that for the family situation.

Became a farm manager for a small place overrun by cattle, donkeys, and whiskey bottles. The bottle have left and the proPIGator. Cattle are being sold or eaten to a manageable and profitable level. Donkeys are slowly finding new homes.
Overrun pastures are being repaired and reclaimed for their intended use.

You can look at the big picture and it is so depressing that just taking a walk away is a powerful attactant. We tend to 'putz' never work. There is always time for a break while putzing or a laugh or an observation. Little by little things get done and suddenly look up and remember what is was and how it is now. Take pictures to remind yourself what you started with.

Buck up and believe in yourself!

Almost forgot. I use unrisen frozen bread dough in the winter for pests and rodents. They become breaded on the inside and it is safe for the cats and dogs. In the summer i have heard about self rising flour about the same result but have not personally tried it. When first moved in was working in front of the pole barn during the day and counted 19 rats in under 10 min, all going the same way so unless they were just doing a number across the rafters then that was a lot of rats. Mice was even worse. 1 year later none, now 3 years later NONE. Some coons and skunks and coyotes but nothing that stays around the household for very long one way or another.

Guineas are noisy and can be messy and tend to be eaten by any and all predators, not personal experience, but i have friends. Personally i use straight run chickens and the roosters get to run around free, if they are gone...oh well, most tend to survive. Naughty ones get Put in the pot.

You didn't say what type of wood the out buildings were. I know here in Texas people are tearing down old buildings and saving the wood. There are many restaurants and some homes using the old wood for decoration of their walls and building decorative bars and such. As for the junk you stated, if any are implements you can take pictures and post them on Craig's List for cash. There are folks that are restoring old farm implements and pay good money to have original parts for their projects. If you continue to mow the pastures the weeds should go away and the grass should take over.

This is an old thread, but I hope this might help others.

Gregg

This is going to take time. Analyze the soil first so you can better determine when to reintroduce livestock. That is if you think it's financially feasible to do so. All the old buildings? Tear them down and burn them. Whatever junk is left ? Roll off dumpsters from your local trash company. The pests? Poisons and traps. A lot of them.