New to farm life questions.

My wife and I are looking to purchase a new home (new to us) with some land.

There quite a few well within our price range with at least 15 acres or more, and one with 65 acres!

I spent a short summer on a farm and had family that I visited every summer that had ducks, chickens and what not.

For a long while (decades) have been wanting to have some property with a small amount of livestock.

I want chickens, a few Soay sheep, a couple Goats.
Just a small hobby farm.

Just so you know, I have experience home construction handyman (plumbing, electrical, carpentry, concrete, roofing) welder and mechanic, and have built and repaired fencing, out buildings and built from scratch a real custom chicken coop for one customer.

The issue we have is I want more acreage, she wants less.

She fears that every square foot needs to be maintained, like someone who has to mow the yard and trim the hedges.

I feel that other than the garden, the small grass yard around the house (that is if we even decide to have one) and any land we use for planed pasture (like alfalfa or some other feed grass), most of the land will be taken care by nature, with some excessive brush removal needed once a year.

Am I dreaming or is she paranoid?

Also.

Any opinion on acreage or anything else for us first timers?

Land may be a good investment just for investment sake. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

It all doesn't have to meet lawn maintenance looks.

The mini farm will require considerable time that runs into the 24/7 scenario as animals need feed and water on a regular basis.

And I ain't taking sides in the argument! [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Egon [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Your dilemma reminds me of something I heard when I lived on 10 acres 20 miles from town. Someone said you want to either buy 10 acres of less or buy 100 acres or more. With no more than 10 acres, you can take care of it just fine. With over 100 acres, you take care of a couple around the house and let the rest go. Anything in between and you work yourself to death trying to take care of all of it; i.e., keep it all manicured. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Personally, I figure if you can afford the purchase price and the taxes, the more land you have, the better investment you have.

More is almost always better. You are gonna need it with goats and sheep. I got 80 ac and wish I had a section. My closest neighbor has 12 sections and the next closest has over 20 sections. I am jealous. In case you don't know one section is a square mile 640 ac.

We have app 28 acres where our farm shed sits. Once or twice a year I mow some of it depending upon the amount of time available, the rest just takes care of it self.

The other parcel is app 46 acres, we farm about 37 acres of it, the rest takes care of it self other than an area that used to be tilled that must be mowed to keep the weeds down.

Point being is that land does not have to be maintained in its natural state, it is there providing a buffer between you and your neighbors. However once you till the soil, then it requires a lot of work unless it is put back in its natural state.

Well, she seems too focused on something small, and I will refuse to buy anything that is not large enough.

[img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

In the right climate there are ways to help the livestock take care of itself, but it's still a lot of work, and everything costs; automatic feeders, and waterers, digging ponds, building shelters, etc.

Goats are fairly easy, and will use natural shelters such as trees, etc. They are much like cattle, but eat more weeds. Don't expect them to keep the grass mowed, as they don't particularly like grass. With the right combination of animals you can see fairly good results. Some cows, some goats, some sheep. Also chickens to help keep down the bugs.

To prepare land for planting, pigs are good, but you need a movable fence, ie; electric ... to keep them penned in where you want them.

If you have enough money to buy everything you need, you will be fine, as long as you are willing to ask for advice. If you don't have enough money, expect a fate worse than the trials of Job. You will spend every waking minute worrying, and chasing and catching and repenning, and more than the average amount of cussing.

But Jim, Isn't a section out there about as productive as an acre or two where there is rich soil and water?

And to the OP... The cowboy philosopher and famous "Indian Cowboy" Will Rogers said, "Buy land, they aren't making any more of it."

If you buy a quarter section (160 ac) to have a buffer zone around you and to get closer to being sure you won't regret purchasing too little, you can always resell it in smaller parcels at a decent markup within a few years. If you don't buy into a really odd situation, the land will appreciate in value.

There are just a lot more people with a pocketbook for 5, 10, 20, or 40 acres that there is for 160 or more even though the price per acre is typically much more in smaller tracts. If the $ is not a total show stopper, buy a larger tract, hold it for a while and break it down into profitable (to you) smaller tracts.

One successful plan is to locate your house knowing you will sell off some of the surrounding tracts. Retain some of the interior land which would have access to the road only through the area by your house as your hobby farm's back 40 so to speak. The remainder of the road frontage (not retained for your residence) can be sold off over time in smaller parcels.

The housing market may be in the tank but bare land with any decent location is a terrific investment. There are a lot of people looking to move to the country on 5-40 acres who have $ to spend.

Look at the stats. Within anywhere close to the area of your interest has bare land EVER been worth less $ on any given day than it was 3-5 years earlier?

I live in a rural area. A town with pop of 400 is less than 2 miles away. another is 5 miles, but to get to a real town requires driving 30 miles in one of 3 directions. Nearest small super market is 12 miles. We are growing slower and feel the population pressure of folks moving out into the country less than in several other areas just 10-15 miles away but we see more and more large custom homes dotting the landscape every year. It is a powerful trend. Some of the smart folks with some $ to invest are buying up rural acreages and leasing them for grazing or hunting or both, renting out any houses included if any, and using this revenue to pay for taxes, any improvements (often with Federal cost share for ponds, erosion repair, eastern red cedar removal and such due to the agricultural status of the land.

In later years, the improved land can be subdivided and sold to the wave of folks with hands full of $ looking for 5-40 acres.

A good friend of mine who runs cattle in common with me on his place and mine has sold off 2 little lots, just a couple acres with highway frontage for residential construction. He is a lisc real estate sales guy who has been in cattle, fencing, and land for over 40 years but been at this location less than 5. Selling little chunks around the edges of his cattle pastures does a couple things: 1. it makes him good $ and 2. it puts a buffer zone around his cattle between the pasture and the road so there is little or no opportunity for theft or trespassing by highway traffic lookey-lous

Just up the highway from us about 8-10 miles a guy cleared some scrub trees on 160 acres, fenced it with a 3 rail wood fence, dozed and graveled winding roads between and among the remaining trees and put up a sub division sign with some cute name and is ready to sell lots. I would not bet against his turning a tidy profit You may have no interest in getting THAT INVOLVED but by buying more than you think you need you may not have bought enough after your needs are checked against reality. If you buy extra and it turns out you don't really want it for yourself, break it up and sell it.

Condensed version:

More is better if you can swing it because you can virtually always sell smaller chunks of your holding at a good profit.

Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

"But Jim, Isn't a section out there about as productive as an acre or two where there is rich soil and water?

Pat that is certainly true in some places. North of Tucson and up by Las Vegas for sure. And it ain't ever going to be as good as south Texas or central Florida. at least not in the next 10,000 years.

But here in eastern Cochise county we have pretty good grass. Back around 1900 or so they shipped thousands of head of beef out of Douglas and Bensen. In the valley here where I live ( Sulfur Springs Valley) they grow thousands of tons of alfalfa every year. The grass here is certainly as good as the grass my uncles had trying to grow beef in Central Texas. Here are a couple of pics of the grass> The corral is mine and the high mountain is a neighbors. Kinda poor pics all I had on file. But you can see the grass in knee high or better.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...rd/mestorm.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...corral0004.jpg

Thanks for the pix and info. Not to quibble but although the grass may be knee high it looks sort of sparse or spotty, not too dense.

Was the hay crop irrigated significantly? I didn't think there was enough precipitation to do much hay but I am not familiar with your exact location. Maybe I could Google Earth and also hit the climatology archives to get a little insight.

Oh, and nice ride too.

Pat

Well, I plan on planting and fencing off for the few animals only what I need to, and will only expand those as needed.

The thought of leasing is one of the considerations I have entertained assuming we have a large enough plot.

And I will be prepping before I ever invite critters to stay.

I will build a secure chicken coop before the chickens move in.

Fence off the garden before planting.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
that is certainly true in some places. North of Tucson

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Jim, this reminds me of when we were in Tucson in January, 1990. One night we went to the CCC Chuckwagon Ranch Supper and show by the Sons of the Pioneers. In the introduction that night, the MC was telling a little about the place and "real" ranches. He said they had 30 acres and in that area that would be about enough for half a cow. [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Incidentally, it was a most enjoyable evening; good food and a very good show. Of course, I've been a Sons of the Pioneers fan for as long as I can remember; just wish they still had as good a bass singer as old Foghorn was.

Pat the hay is all irrigated for sure. I tried to post a google pic but can't make it work. Just to a satellite pic for Elfrida Arizona and scroll a little north. You will see all the alfalfa fields. each circle is 160 ac. I no longer have that horse. He was OK But had been raised by a young woman with no real knowledge of horses. He was terrified of cows (absurd as it is) so he went away. If we could get half the rain they get in Houston or New Orleans this place would look like the amazon.

Jim, I know what you mean regarding having the fertility and sun but needing water. There is a lot of that in the SW.

A couple hours west of me is the town of Lindsay, Oklahoma. The Washita (pronounced like wash it taw) river loops around Lindsay so you nave to cross a river bridge entering or leaving Lindsay on 3 of the 4 possibilities.

The Washita river valley bottom land is comparable in fertility to some of the Nile river valley. In parts of it you do not calculate how many acres of pasture it takes per head of cattle but instead how many head of cattle per acre.

You don't see for sale signs along these parts.

Pat