Chuck, I find that those valves that go on just behind the shower nozzle to be quite convenient. After you get the shower water adjusted to temp and you get wetteed down, you can turn off the water flow without disturbing the settings. Then you can lather up, shave, or whatever and then turn the water back on STILL AT THE RIGHT TEMP to rinse off. Likewise for shampoo on the hair. Very convenient and saves water and energy. The valve doesn't quite shut the water off completely so the small flow helps maintain the water temperature. Some of these valves have extension arms with swivels which I like because most shower nozzles are mounted too low for my personal taste and height. My wife likes them too as she can arrange the nozzle to suit her purpose and height.

It was about 4 years ago when I designed and supervised construction of my mom's house and the appliance companies didn't have many platforms for front loaders. The builder tried to talk me into not exceeding a foot in height but I insisted on at least 16 inches (with cabinets below) and it works pretty well. The cabinet under the appliance platform in the new house is 20 inches. 23 would not be too high unless children were expected to access it or the user was less than say, 5'5" or so. I also had a "floor" built under the dishwasher cabinet location to elevate it 8 inches. That last 8 inches of bending is the worst.

Hey, it wasn't a hunting or fishing trip but it sounds like the father-son activity had a definite positive effect. Congratulatiions to your son on his adult thinking, no, make that critical thinking, plenty of adults don't do that well.

By the way, I lived in Lima, up in the northwest corner, from the second half of the first grade through the eighth. Had I not had the opportunity to live in BEAUTIFUL Ohio I may never have learned much about sledding, ice skating, , or had the oportunity to see ice fishing up close (I didn't participate but my folks liked it.)

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Pat [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]